I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, ActualizedDavid said:

@winterknight what do you think was this experience?

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/28337-enlightened-but-not-knowing-the-truth/

 

I don't know. But I think there is a clue here, when you write: "That i accepted what happened to me"

 

53 minutes ago, zambize said:

This is awesome that you're doing this.

Anyways, I had seen one of your comments about the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, and I'm not here to grill you on that.  However, I'm curious how much you've looked into the "sciences".  In terms of the physical laws of the universe, gravity, quantum mechanics, even the initial state of the universe I.E. big bang.  My question is do you see any use in studying these laws in understanding the universe and it's creation, or do you think that studying these laws outside of benefiting humans and technology is a waste.  For example, quantum mechanics is an interesting field because we really don't know what the fuck is going on.  We did the measurements, and then created the model that matched the measurements we got, and it worked in terms of predictability.  However, we have very little insight into why the hell the quantum world acts so strange when compared to the Newtonian world we live in.  Do you think there are insights to be had her in understanding why the quantum world and other laws of nature are the way they are, or do you think that the only way to get at the absolute Truth is through experience?

Studying quantum effects is great for understanding physics, but that is not absolute Truth, and never will be. Though absolute Truth is not good for understanding physics.

[zambize]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

 

I don't know. But I thk there is a clue here, when you write: "That i accepted what happened to me"

 

Studying quantum effects is great for understanding physics, but that is not absolute Truth, and never will be. Though absolute Truth is not good for understanding physics.

That's kind of what I figured, although I had heard of attempts from people like Tom Campbell to use consciousness and virtual reality to do so.  Or at least say that these laws and strange behaviors point away from materialism and into something bigger,  I wasn't sure your take on it.

One last question if you wouldn't mind answering something more personal.  If there was one defining moment or day in your life that contributed the most to you eventually becoming enlightened, what was it, and what lesson could I Iearn from it as someone seeking full enlightenment?

[winterknight]

6 minutes ago, zambize said:

That's kind of what I figured, although I had heard of attempts from people like Tom Campbell to use consciousness and virtual reality to do so.  Or at least say that these laws and strange behaviors point away from materialism and into something bigger,  I wasn't sure your take on it.

One last question if you wouldn't mind answering something more personal.  If there was one defining moment or day in your life that contributed the most to you eventually becoming enlightened, what was it, and what lesson could I Iearn from it as someone seeking full enlightenment?

Well, I mean quantum stuff can be suggestive for some people who are highly science oriented and perhaps need an excuse to go the spiritual route in the first place... it helps some people justify that to themselves...

Probably the most important turning point was me realizing that life was not about me figuring out what I "should" do (even in terms of getting enlightened, which was already a goal) and then forcing myself to do it, but listening to what I emotionally wanted (no easy task!) -- whether or not it was what I "should" want -- and aligning myself with that... being honest about what I wanted, in other words.

Honest desire is the central pivot around which it all turned.

Edited November 29, 2018 by winterknight

[zambize]

4 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Well, I mean quantum stuff can be suggestive for some people who are highly science oriented and perhaps need an excuse to go the spiritual route in the first place... it helps some people justify that to themselves...

Probably the most important turning point was me realizing that life was not about me figuring out what I "should" do (even in terms of getting enlightened, which was already a goal) and then forcing myself to do it, but listening to what I emotionally wanted (no easy task!) -- whether or not it was what I "should" want -- and aligning myself with that... being honest about what I wanted, in other words.

Honest desire is the central pivot around which it all turned.

Your wisdom is much appreciated and will certainly be put to good use, hope you stick around on these forums at least a bit   

[Preetom]

@winterknight

What are your thoughts on prayer?

Have you personally used prayer at times in your life even after knowing about non duality? 

[ActualizedDavid]

.

32 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I don't know. But I think there is a clue here, when you write: "That i accepted what happened to me"

That i accepted what I m ? Original I'm? What is god? And i did not put any filters over "me"?

I'm trying to understand..

[winterknight]

3 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

What are your thoughts on prayer?

Have you personally used prayer at times in your life even after knowing about non duality? 

Prayer is very useful for quieting the mind and orienting it towards the higher. Prayer symbolizes the higher relation in a way that the mind can relate to. Yes, my body/mind still uses prayer -- they find joy in that reverence -- but of course body, mind, and prayer are all illusion.

[Preetom]

8 hours ago, winterknight said:

Reading along many of your posts(and also how most enlightened people relate to things), I can't help asking a question regarding post Enlightenment state.

It seems there functions a 'dual' mode of knowing simultaneously in you. On one level your life is unfolding like every other person and there is all living aspects like body, mind, emotions, world etc. On the other level, you have no doubt that none of these things exist but the Self.

It's almost like sitting on the couch and watching a movie on TV. On one sense, I'm engrossed in the movie but simultaneously peripherally aware that I'm outside the movie and the movie is ultimately an illusion(in this metaphor).

1) So what is it really like? Is it a form of dual stereo knowing? Or do you find yourself jumping between perspectives when you think about this issue?

2) whats the nature of your experience if you don't have to label, think and explain about it?

3) would you call Enlightenment a perspective? Or something else..

Edited November 29, 2018 by Preetom

[Annoynymous]

@winterknight i have found a good psychologist and planning to go to him soon.

You had suggested to chant OM 64 times. I started to do it, felt like bullshit but slowly it felt good. It is calming my mind slowly.

You had also suggested fo express my feeling through writing and discussing elaborately. I have also started to do it.  When i do that, i become more emotional at first, but gradually it feels good. Though the progress is slow.

I have got one questiom for you. Are  Phychological issues barrier for spiritual growth?

[Igor82]

@winterknight

Wonderful work!! I did only read very little of this thread... I hope not this thread magically disappears from this forum before I can read it all.

 

I realize that this journey is very long and im just at the beginning... What is the best expectation that prepares me for this journey?

My preliminary answer: I should expect "hell of hell, no mercy, worst case scenario, slow suicide, etc", essentially expecting the toughest journey, only being able to push through with my current will and curiosity for truth. This expectation makes it easier for me to evaluate what I really want (Why suffer through hell?)... is it a valid expectation? Will alignment with this expectation (Me being in the second ox picture) prevent me from quitting in the toughest of times?

 

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, ActualizedDavid said:

That i accepted what I m ? Original I'm? What is god? And i did not put any filters over "me"?

I'm trying to understand..

Well, you wrote "That i accepted what happened to me" -- what did you mean by it?

43 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Reading along many of your posts(and also how most enlightened people relate to things), I can't help asking a question regarding post Enlightenment state.

It seems there functions a 'dual' mode of knowing simultaneously in you. One on level your life is unfolding like every other person and there is all living aspects like body, mind, emotions, world etc. On the other level, you have no doubt that none of these things exist but the Self.

It's almost like sitting on the couch and watching a movie on TV. On one sense, I'm engrossed in the movie but simultaneously peripherally aware that I'm outside the movie and the movie is ultimately an illusion(in this metaphor).

1) So what is it really like? Is it a form of dual stereo knowing? Or do you find yourself jumping between perspectives when you think about this issue?

2) whats the nature of your experience if you don't have to label, think and explain about it?

3) would you call Enlightenment a perspective? Or something else..

1. The truth is that no words can do it justice. It is not a form of dual stereo knowing. There is a single knowing -- of the Self. Everything else is unreal. It appears real to seekers -- they see words, and assume that there is a person who is typing them, and assume things about my state of mind. But all those things are wrong. I am only the Self; that is all that is experienced -- that, that, and nothing else.

The very idea that there is something else is a misconception. The idea that there is "the movie" is a misconception. When the mind is still, it will be seen that all these ideas cannot even be said to arise.

So from the standpoint of the seeker -- there is a very real mystery here. It is incomprehensible. So they are told: "It is an appearance. It is a movie, etc." Actually there is no appearance and no movie. There is only the Nameless Silence.

But they will have to see that for themselves.

2. The nature of the experience is uninterrupted silent inexpressible Pure Being

3. It is not a perspective. It is simply the extinction of an illusion which was itself non-existent... so in the end enlightenment too is an illusion. But the seeker must pursue it as if it were real until they find that out for themselves, in their own experience. Because enlightenment is an illusion that nevertheless points to the Unspeakable Truth.

Edited November 29, 2018 by winterknight

[Sahil Pandit]

@winterknight Would you accept a mentee in person if they were devoted to The Path? 

[winterknight]

19 minutes ago, Sahil Pandit said:

@winterknight Would you accept a mentee in person if they were devoted to The Path? 

Yes, I mentor seekers on a professional basis.

Edited November 29, 2018 by winterknight

[perlita]

1 hour ago, winterknight said:

Probably the most important turning point was me realizing that life was not about me figuring out what I "should" do (even in terms of getting enlightened, which was already a goal) and then forcing myself to do it, but listening to what I emotionally wanted (no easy task!) -- whether or not it was what I "should" want -- and aligning myself with that... being honest about what I wanted, in other words.

Honest desire is the central pivot around which it all turned.

I heard this before from varies teachers but what does it actually mean? How do you distinguish between what "I" want and my ego wants? It's not always black and white, specially later in the process.  The ego may say - but I really really want to reconnect with my ex-lover! It's an emotional want! Am I supposed to listen? 
Do you have any tips on how to align myself with the true radio wave?

[winterknight]

17 minutes ago, perlita said:

I heard this before from varies teachers but what does it actually mean? How do you distinguish between what "I" want and my ego wants? It's not always black and white, specially later in the process.  The ego may say - but I really really want to reconnect with my ex-lover! It's an emotional want! Am I supposed to listen? 
Do you have any tips on how to align myself with the true radio wave?

Yes, desire can be very complicated. This is in part why i always recommend psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy to seekers. It can be very helpful to have a thoughtful, empathic, and expert professional helping you understand your desire. 

Technically your job is not really to decide what to do. Whatever you do do is, in a sense, what you wanted to do.

Your job is to, without judging anything as bad or evil, bring all the different voices within yourself into your awareness, and to listen to them, and to feel the feelings and desires associated with them, and to try to imagine new courses of action that might satisfy these different interests.

Now, how does that happen? Several ways. One is the therapy I mentioned. Second is expressive writing/drawing/etc .-- capturing, as exactly as you can, how you feel. Part of that can include imagining possible options -- "What if I move to Oregon for the new job? What if I don't?" -- and feeling how you feel after imagining what happens in each choice, and then expressing that through writing/drawing/etc. And then, you iterate. Suppose you feel good but a little uncertain about moving to Oregon. Then you dig into that. What exactly makes you feel uneasy? Use your imagination again to explore different possibilities and feel your feelings and then express them. It's a cycle.

Also part of this cycle is acting. So act -- try something -- and then, again, reflect on how you felt when you did that. Describe it, again. As you describe these things, you will unearth different aspects and complexities of your desire. You like this aspect but not that aspect. As you see that complexity and nuance, you will be able to make better and better hypotheses about what it is that you want ("Moving to Oregon would be good, but only if it's Portland -- that's the only city I'd be happy with. But I want to live within biking distance of work, and it's got to be a place my girlfriend is ok with too..." etc.)

A third aspect of this is that a quiet mind really helps. When the mind is quiet, what you do will be in alignment with what you think you want. But it's all a cycle. As you move towards understanding and feeling what you want, your mind will grow quieter. A quieter mind will also enable you to pursue spirituality more, which will also help quiet the mind, and that will also help align your actions with your desire.

So to take the example you give above about the ex-lover, you may both have the desire to re-connect with the ex-lover and a part of you that feels it's a bad idea. It's your job to explore the emotions and thoughts behind both these positions. What you actually want to do may be either to call or not to call -- but it's not the action that counts, but whether that action respects and honors both of the underlying positions you had within you, takes their concerns into account, really listens and feels and understand the context of both of them. Once it has listened deeply, you will come to a place of calm -- and whatever action takes place in that calm is correct.

Edited November 29, 2018 by winterknight

[zambize]

I actually have some more questions now

1.   What are the benefits from further developing through the various degrees of enlightenment to society as a whole?

2.  If it were an option, would you do this journey again by being reborn?  Or would you never go back into the life that we live even after an eternity of bliss?

3.  Does it make it difficult to teach people who suffer how not to suffer, when you aren't suffering?  Is there an advantage to teaching that comes from being in the same position and delusion as others?

4. Is there a path that can benefit humanity and raise the consciousness of society as a whole more than enlightenment?

 

[winterknight]

14 minutes ago, zambize said:

I actually have some more questions now

1.   What are the benefits from further developing through the various degrees of enlightenment to society as a whole?

2.  If it were an option, would you do this journey again by being reborn?  Or would you never go back into the life that we live even after an eternity of bliss?

3.  Does it make it difficult to teach people who suffer how not to suffer, when you aren't suffering?  Is there an advantage to teaching that comes from being in the same position and delusion as others?

4. Is there a path that can benefit humanity and raise the consciousness of society as a whole more than enlightenment?

1. There are really no 'degrees' of enlightenment. There's just enlightenment (in the end there's not even that!). It benefits society because all evils come from ignorance of our true nature, and anyone realizing their true nature tends to help, by their mere presence, others move towards that too. Plus the enlightened lose a lot of their extraneous desires, so they have less conflict with others. They have more peace inside, so they can give more to the others. The benefits go on and on.

But, of course, does society exist? See if you exist and then you will know...

2. There's no journey, actually. There was never a journey, and there was no birth, let alone rebirth.

3. If there is teaching and a teacher, then the teacher also suffered on his path, so he would know suffering.

4. No.

[zambize]

What's the biggest thing keeping you back from helping even more people? Be it financial, lack of expertise in some field, human needs, etc

Is there reincarnation/past lives?

Edited November 29, 2018 by zambize

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, zambize said:

What's the biggest thing keeping you back from helping even more people? Be it financial, lack of expertise in some field, human needs, etc

I haven't been a good marketer -- probably some psychological hangup on my part. And that also has effects on finances.

Quote

Is there reincarnation/past lives?

If there is this birth, then there were past births and future ones. But in truth there is not even this birth.

[Blissout]

Winterknight,

I remember you from 1-2 years ago.

Back then when I asked you claimed to be liberated and when I asked you if you can still suffer, anxiety ,future worries. you said yes.

Are you saying to me the shift back then wasn't final, and now it is and you can't ever suffer from those things anymore?

 

Self realization, moksha, nirvana, liberation, enlightenment... attained that is THE END OF SUFFERING COMPLETELY.

 

If you still experience psycholgical mental suffering in anyway, YOU are not enlightened!

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Blissout