I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[cetus]

35 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

Is it just to solidify this in subconscious

After some time of continual practice the mind quiets down and finally surrenders to silence. Than the vail of the limited self is lifted as the true self, the infinate self void of location or identity is revealed.

[seeking_brilliance]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

If you've seen that then your not a newbie.

Well I've had a glimpse or realization that was beyond just conceptualization but it's definitely not solidified in everyday consciousness. So I can see that self inquiry helps with that

[cetus]

@seeking_brilliance Exactly. You gotta stay on it. It's kind of like breaking in a wild horse. It will want to run it's own way every chance it gets.

[seeking_brilliance]

35 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@seeking_brilliance Exactly. You gotta stay on it. It's kind of like breaking in a wild horse. It will want to run it's own way every chance it gets.

Oh ok great well then I do do this throughout the day, reminding the thoughts that there's no thinker. Just didn't know if that was the point--to pretty much convince subconscious of this so that the thoughts that do arise might take on a less 'me-thought' nature. 

[SOUL]

When my mind says I don't give a crap about self inquiry should I ask who doesn't give a crap about self inquiry?

Who is wanting to do self inquiry?

Who thinks self inquiry can do anything anyway?

Who? Who? Who! WHO!

[Preetom]

2 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

Oh ok great well then I do do this throughout the day, reminding the thoughts that there's no thinker. Just didn't know if that was the point--to pretty much convince subconscious of this so that the thoughts that do arise might take on a less 'me-thought' nature. 

That's a trap!!!!!

God help us. Self-inquiry is a super simple method. It's so simple that everyone needs to complicate it.

Self inquiry is neither a 'who am i' or 'there is no me' mantra, nor a concentration practice, nor a clever intellectual mental gymnastic to brainwash and convince yourself.

Self inquiry is..

1) become present right now

2) then whatever rises at this moment as an I feeling (a thought/sensation etc); gently following that to its source. You must start from exactly where you are. If the 'i' feels to be in the head, that's the starting point.

3) along the way seeing every objective identification as 'perceived', while you keep falling into the 'perceiver'

4) a non-located subjective experience is reached at one point. Pure sense of I AM. Stay there.

5) eventually you'll drop from that state due to latent mental tendencies. That means repeat from step 1.

NOTE: 'there is no me' is thought. That means you've already lost it. Restart from step 1.

Repeat this thing for millions of time if necessary... day after day, hour after hour...until all delusion is burnt once and for all and nothing takes you away from Enlightenment.

I'll finish with an amazing metaphor for self inquiry I heard from Rupert Spira.

It's like you're lost in a jungle but there is your private camp at its center. You take days to trace your way back to your camp.

Again you get lost somewhere else in the jungle....again you trace back to your camp....this cycle goes on...

After a while, you start returning to your camp quicker and quicker....after some time, the entire jungle becomes familiar to you...so much so that you are NEVER lost again in that jungle. 

Self inquiry is just like that. You actually need to trace your attention or I-ness back to its source over and over...you need to take those steps back to YOU. At the final stages of self inquiry, it becomes so easy that just the thought 'I' immediately takes you to the Self.

Getting lost in the jungle and shouting, "there is no me, I'm not lost, I have a camp" etc won't bring you back to your camp. You actually have to trace back.

Get lost. Trace back. Get lost. Trace back....

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Preetom

[SoonHei]

@Preetom @Preetom wow@winterknight thank you

 

That was great preetom

The lost in the jungle analogy. Spot on. Bless you. Bless Spira too

[seeking_brilliance]

@Preetom ok, actually your method seems more complicated than just doing affirmations to convince subconscious, but then again, there's probably a reason the affirmations don't work as well like as you described. (I'm sure a combination of the affirmations and your proposed method couldnt hurt, and may be complimentary) 

But, OK let's say the I-feeling seems to be in head. I don't understand how to follow that somewhere. It just stays there. I can say, well it's not in my head because that's in my awareness, but the feeling doesn't move to another part in the body for me to follow. Just stays in head. So it doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere. 

And I'm aware that the only reason it feels to be in the head is because it feels to be behind the eyes and between the ears, and where I hear thoughts, the the main senses,  not including taste. But 'i' can't seem to break out of that feeling of being stuck in the head, with everything else that is felt in the body seems more like a peripheral. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by seeking_brilliance

[Preetom]

3 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@Preetom ok, actually your method seems more complicated than just doing affirmations to convince subconscious, but then again, there's probably a reason the affirmations don't work as well like as you described. 

But, OK let's say the I-feeling seems to be in head. I don't understand how to follow that somewhere. It just stays there. I can say, well it's not in my head because that's in my awareness, but the feeling doesn't move to another part in the body for me to follow. Just stays in head. So it doesn't feel like I'm getting anywhere. 

Affirmations or negations don't  work because self inquiry is not an intellectual process, but a tracing of present moment feeling.

Through thoughts, you can reach an intellectual understanding but never the 'felt' realization.

Let's say you feel that 'i' is in the head. Then ask yourself 'who is the perceiver'?' or 'what is it, that knows this experience in the head?'... and gently notice what happens to that sensation and your attention.

The logic is 'I' can't be the sensation because I am aware of it. The moment you realize this, your attention starts to loosen from that sensation and relaxes more and more...attention starts to revert back to wherever the hell it came from. This is what is called attention turned on itself or being aware of being aware or sinking the mind into the Heart

One of 2 thing can happen

1) the grip on that sensation in head will either dissolve or loosen and you'll 'experience' pure I AM without any particular identification. Then just stay there.

2) or that sensation will loose it's grip BUT another subtler sensation will feel like 'I'. Then you dis-identify from that as well...until you reach I AM. Stay there...until a thought/sensation takes you away again.

So the questions are not the purpose of self inquiry. They are just tools in order to relax the obsessive focus from objects to the Subject. You won't locate the subject but you'll know when a shift happens. That's why it is said mind can never go there.

Even if you're 'stuck' in that head sensation, keep watching that I feeling. That's concentration practice happening right there. Eventually, that identification must dissolve and attention will fall back on its source.

Note: this is the spiritual effort one must exert. Self inquiry is not an idle formula. It needs tremendous focus and perseverance. It is such a complete technique that it builds your concentration and detachment simultaneously along the way. At final stages, the 'I' will never identify with anything ever again.

That's why it is known as the direct path, meaning that you don't need any pre-requisites. Only requirement is 100% willingness and desire to walk through the path all the way...until the nut cracks...no matter how stupid or boring it feels along the way.

These boring moods and labels are usually associated with thoughts. It doesn't mean that the process is a hoax, it means that mind is trying to trick you to stop.

Final note: this technique can't be mentally discussed. One has to spend hours after hours with this until one gets a 'feel' of it. It's exactly like an adventure in the jungle I mentioned. You must take that adventure yourself, whatever you need to know or fine-tune, you'll learn them on your own along the way. 

Just remember this mantra,

"Nothing perceivable or conceivable can be I"

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Preetom

[Jack River]

@seeking_brilliance @Preetom

The problem seems to be that the very intent to sit down and inquire is a reward based intention. So because of that the self inquiry has implicitly introduced the intellect into the equation. 

Might help to understand the self/thought and its tendencies/patterns/psychological time and such to transcend this barrier. 

More atleast be able to track psychological movement as it arises. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Jack River

[seeking_brilliance]

@Preetom ???? can't say enough thanks for that awesome description. 

So at least as a very basic exercise, I could just sit with the feeling of me in my head, not caring if it goes away or not, and eventually it may do so anyway because it will turn in on itself. Right? And if nothing else, I'm building concentration. 

And now I can see why I can literally do this anywhere, anytime, with zero effort

Edited November 23, 2018 by seeking_brilliance

[Preetom]

37 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@seeking_brilliance @Preetom

The problem seems to be that the very intent to sit down and inquire is a reward based intention. So because of that the self inquiry has implicitly introduced the intellect into the equation. 

Might help to understand the self/thought and its tendencies/patterns/psychological time and such to transcend this barrier. 

One has to sit and willingly look at the  movement of thoughts in order to understand the deceptive nature of thoughts.

Mere hearsay from someone or believing something won't do it. Yeah one can have a new trophy in his intellectual showcase, but not real living insight.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Preetom

[Jack River]

14 minutes ago, Preetom said:

One has to sit and willingly look at the  movement of thoughts in order to understand the deceptive nature of thoughts.

Fosho. To look at the movement of thought in relation to emotion. I agree. 

 

14 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Mere hearsay from someone or believing something won't do it. Yeah one can have a new trophy in his intellectual showcase, but not real living insight.

Fosho. I find that the application of a way kinda assumes ‘a believing’ that it will deliver the goods. I find this is seen when we understand our own tendencies by investigating fear/desire/psychological becoming in ourselves. It starts out as the self/intellect but soon we see that that is the case. Self movement. 

Fosho dude. With the trophy in mind destroys the entire inquiry. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Jack River

[seeking_brilliance]

14 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@Preetom ???? can't say enough thanks for that awesome description. 

So at least as a very basic exercise, I could just sit with the feeling of me in my head, not caring if it goes away or not, and eventually it may do so anyway because it will turn in on itself. Right? And if nothing else, I'm building concentration. 

And now I can see why I can literally do this anywhere, anytime, with zero effort

@Preetom sorry, I edited my post a couple times, wasn't sure if you read the full thing

[Preetom]

@SoonHei

Glad you found it helpful

2 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@Preetom ???? can't say enough thanks for that awesome description. 

So at least as a very basic exercise, I could just sit with the feeling of me in my head, not caring if it goes away or not, and eventually it may do so anyway because it will turn in on itself. Right? And if nothing else, I'm building concentration. 

And now I can see why I can literally do this anywhere, anytime, with zero effort

You're welcome. Yes you need to come to this technique over and over again until it becomes unbroken (That's how Ramana Maharshi originally prescribed it and he saw no conflict in day to day action and continuing self inquiry) . In the beginner stages, you need to cultivate a lot of interest for the 'perceiver' that knows, not the experiences that are known. That love for your Self, for your Consciousness will motivate you to self inquire more and more.

Just stay with that sense of 'I'. If it stays in the head for 1 hour, let it be. Keep watching it. You don't have to deny or fight against it. At best you can ask ''who is the perceiver of this feeling?'' to gently relax your attention. Either way, you are not getting lost in thoughts but staying more present.

I'll share one more helpful pointer I got from Adyashanti about self inquiry.

If it takes you into thoughts, complaining, judging etc no matter how logical or clever or non-dual it sounds, that's a clear indication that you're not doing self-inquiry as it should be done. Rather you've been tricked and lured by the traps of your mind. It's not a thinking or figuring out process.

If it takes you into deeper and deeper all pervasive feelings, deep emotions etc..which you keep on dis-identifying from...until you reach a thoughtless pure observation or I AM; then you're doing it right. Self-inquiry should make you more and more grounded and hyper alert in present moment. Yeah sometimes mental storms can come up but the point is not to fight them or start a clever argument with thoughts against thoughts. The point is gently disidentifying and tracing the attention to fall back on itself...

It's almost like learning a musical instrument. You can get lessons from a dozen masters, but when all is said and done, you must sit with that guitar consistently...learning your way day after day, month after month. One day, you start to get a 'feel' of it for yourself and from then on you don't need any pointer or master anymore. You carve your own way.

You are fine as long as you check these 2 things.

1) Don't stop inquiry while identifying as an experience, no matter how gross or subtle that object is. Remember, you are not an object but the 'knower' of all objects.

2) Don't look at a thought like ''there is no me'', ''I'm now enlightened'' or any clever argument to confirm your progress at all.

I strongly take it as a hypothesis that if I'm really Enlightened, I won't need the thought, ''I am Enlightened'' as a verification to end the search. It is direct BEING! Anyone can think that thought anytime.

You'll know when it happens. YOU can't miss YOURSELF. After that, you won't need any confirmation from anyone

Edited November 23, 2018 by Preetom

[Manjushri]

@winterknight What do you think about other forms of therapy? Constructivism is the cheapest one here. 

[seeking_brilliance]

@Preetom pure gold, thank you so much!    What's funny is that I'm sure I've heard all this before, but this is the first time this mind is putting it together and comprehending. I finally get self inquiry.  I know exactly what to do now! 

@winterknight thank you so much for letting me hijack your thread for a minute... was totally worth it!

[Preetom]

Just now, seeking_brilliance said:

@Preetom pure gold, thank you so much!    What's funny is that I'm sure I've heard all this before, but this is the first time this mind is putting it together and comprehending. I finally get self inquiry.  I know exactly what to do now!

Yes it's really simple. You just be present and follow the 'I' feeling honestly...without any judgment or agenda. Only mind makes it complex with arguments and clever distractions. It is an ongoing 'felt' experiment...

Unfortunately, I've found that people who criticize or bash on Self-inquiry, don't really have a holistic understanding of this process. They have reduced it to a mere clever argument and discarded it.

From my own experience I've found that Self-inquiry is a complete package that contains many many things. A total recontextualuzation of attention and thus perception.

1) Concentration practice

2) Asking questions and bringing out unquestioned assumptions and beliefs into light and thus unwiring them

3) Detachment from all objects until pure I AM/Witnessing shines

4) Progressive layers of relaxation and peace as the mind and body starts to relax. 

5) Having mini breakthroughs more and more easily and frequently. These mini insights ARE enlightenment. But the latent mental tendencies bring you out of it. Self-inquiry must continue until all seeds of Vasanas (tendencies) are burnt once and for all.

6) Final irreversible breakthrough into Enlightenment (Only thing I haven't verified by myself )

All that is necessary is you spending time with it. Really sink into it. The more you do it, the easier and effortless it becomes. More and more you will put attention on your attention (relaxation of attention); instead of putting attention on objects and identifying with them.

[Preetom]

Actually both affirmation and negation techniques have it's place in Vedic tradition.

The seeker would affirm ''I am HE'' or ''I am BRAHMAN'' as a mantra million times a day in meditation.

The seeker would do neti neti (negation); which is mentally negating everything in present experience that is not me.

Ramana Maharshi criticized both these techniques as not being direct enough. He said when you ask ''Who am I?'', you are not after an affirmation or answer like ''I am Brahman'' nor you just mentally label things as ''not me not me''. 

''Who am I?'' is a question that invites you to take a silent journey deeper and deeper into your present experience...this is what Ramana Maharshi declared as the most direct path.

With that being said, neti neti is a very helpful technique that refines intellect to discriminate between the Seer and the seen. It builds a solid intellectual foundation and later helps a lot in self inquiry.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Preetom

[cetus]

4 hours ago, SOUL said:

When my mind says I don't give a crap about self inquiry should I ask who doesn't give a crap about self inquiry?

Who is wanting to do self inquiry?

Who thinks self inquiry can do anything anyway?

Who? Who? Who! WHO!

@SOUL Haha well that's about the crux of it. When it all collapses in on itself. Castles made of sand as every thought a grain of sand.