I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Shan]

Can an eligthened person become and un-elightened person over a period of time ?

Do enlightened people need money ? Could they get sick ?

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

So what we actually should be focusing on achieving is mental peace, calmness, steadiness of concentration in inquiry?

Those are not different goals. The inquiry is: "Who am I?" Focusing on that with "steadiness of concentration" will eventually bring peace and calmness.

6 minutes ago, Shan said:

Can an eligthened person become and un-elightened person over a period of time ?

Do enlightened people need money ? Could they get sick ?

How would the answers to these questions affect your path?

Edited November 15, 2018 by winterknight

[Outer]

1 minute ago, winterknight said:

Those are not different goals. The inquiry is: "Who am I?" Focusing on that with "steadiness of concentration" will eventually bring peace and calmness.

Alright so I'm supposed to do this every time, when? Whenever I have a thought?

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, Outer said:

Alright so I'm supposed to do this every time, when? Whenever I have a thought?

Continuously. Now. Grab on to the "I" feeling and hold on to it with a death grip no matter what else happens till you figure out what the hell it actually is. What actually is that feeling? When you say "I," which seems obvious, what are you actually referring to at a deep, felt level? And then of course you knock out all the things you think you are when you notice that "I am aware of them." So when you've eliminated all of those, what's left?

[Shan]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

8 minutes ago, Shan said:

Can an eligthened person become and un-elightened person over a period of time ?

Do enlightened people need money ? Could they get sick ?

 

How would the answers to these questions affect your path?

Even before comitting to a small action we think what might happen to us as a consequence. Pursuit of Enlightenement  is the ulimate. Therefore, being curious about what enlightened people become is natural. Do they fall sick, would they need money, could they become unelightened ?

[graded24]

34 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Well it's like you've been staring directly at a wall for so long you've forgotten it's there, and you're asking yourself "Where's the wall? Where's the wall?" and then suddenly -- snap! -- you realize it's right in front of you, you've been looking directly at it all this time. So the inquiry -- the questions about where the wall was -- fell away of itself.

But you can't control when & how that happens. It's like that (obviously not exactly the same, because the I is not a physical object like a wall).

It sounds like you've already experienced that to some extent. And then you seem to forget again. That's what happens, and why inquiry must be repeated.

1- Taking your analogy, how can I ever find/locate the  I-am and stop? Because whatever I can find is not the I-am by definition.
What does happen though is, in trying to find/locate the I-am, and failing to do so (scanning the whole body-mind-world and then knowing its nowhere) a cessation of sorts is arrived. It's more like just giving up and BEING. I dont know whether i am being a particular thing, i just know that i am being.  Is this what you mean by 'fell away of itself'?  
2- What is the difference between looking for the "I" and BEING the "I" ? 

[who chit]

4 minutes ago, Shan said:

Even before comitting to a small action we think what might happen to us as a consequence. Pursuit of Enlightenement  is the ulimate. Therefore, being curious about what enlightened people become is natural. Do they fall sick, would they need money, could they become unelightened ?

I'd say many come at it with at least some apprehension because of it's unknowable nature. It necessitates experience,intellectualizing does no good here, and mind does not like entering the unknown.
 If one decides to "give it a try", the "do I want to".."do I not want to" circus goes on until there is at least some solid glimpse or temporary transcendent experience. Then you will definitely know whether or not it's worth pursuing.

Many come to it because of some sort of suffering,or they've experienced enough of life to learn that what they thought would bring lasting contentment and joy,never fit the bill.

Then some come because there was always some sense of a calling for it. I'd say I was probably the only 12yo. kid at my school meditating. And not  knowing why I was doing it,lol. Family thought it was weird,but I thought nothing of it.

[Shan]

@winterknight looks like its late for you and I see you answered my particular question previosuly in the thread that enlightened people do catch cold (meaninng they do need money etc). 

Thanks for taking the time and its really interesting. Namastay. 

[winterknight]

 

53 minutes ago, graded24 said:

1- Taking your analogy, how can I ever find/locate the  I-am and stop? Because whatever I can find is not the I-am by definition.
What does happen though is, in trying to find/locate the I-am, and failing to do so (scanning the whole body-mind-world and then knowing its nowhere) a cessation of sorts is arrived. It's more like just giving up and BEING. I dont know whether i am being a particular thing, i just know that i am being.  Is this what you mean by 'fell away of itself'?  
2- What is the difference between looking for the "I" and BEING the "I" ? 

1. yes, well, it's certainly on the way. for example, when you wrote earlier: 'There is a timelessness to it. It does unnoticed by the mind because mind can only understand things by comparison so cannot see what is changeless and always there. Then i try to notice this "thing" and a sinking of the mind starts occurring. Mind calms down because it doesn't feel required to notice what is already here, prior to knowing.' --> this is definitely related

but the key thing is that when you have that recognition, there should be a lifting of the burden of effort -- not just the effort of the inquiry -- but all effort. things should feel effortless, at least for a while. because that is your true nature

2. Looking for  the I means looking for it through the lens of the mind -- as an object; being the I means knowing yourself as the Self without pinning it down as an object, knowing it directly as the total stillness that is always there

[DrewNows]

5 hours ago, Jack River said:

5 hours ago, winterknight said:

A seeker needs to search until they find. One illusion is killed by another, better, higher one. That's how the search works.

For me, I needed the freedom to seek/explore without the conditioned self corrupting the search or learning. 

@Jack RiverWhat do you mean here? i am looking back at these so feel free to pm me 

[winterknight]

26 minutes ago, Shan said:

@winterknight looks like its late for you and I see you answered my particular question previosuly in the thread that enlightened people do catch cold (meaninng they do need money etc). 

Thanks for taking the time and its really interesting. Namastay. 

Namaste. Oh and enlightened people cannot become unenlightened, primarily because there's no such thing as unenlightened in reality... 

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

@Jack RiverWhat do you mean here? i am looking back at these so feel free to pm me 

 

Here are a few reasons I needed freedom first. 

Freedom not to condemn/accept or judge. Freedom to look without choice as the chooser with its preconceived conclusions.

Freedom to suspend bias/prejudice in order to attend/learn something new.

Freedom from psychological reaction which moves in a particular direction away from what is to what should according to its preconditioned notions.

Freedom from ego/self that out of its own self serving agenda clings to its own accumulated content/thought/the past in order to secure itself psychologically.

Freedom to inquire without being influenced by reward and the fear of punishment.

Freedom to explore/observe/learn free of the past(self/thought) which meets the now and corrupts observation/learning/exploration because it cannot observed objectively the new without the old distorting the new.

Psychological time/becoming seems to prevent a seeker from seeking with true/honest intent.

Psychological freedom means an ability to start the search with humility. 

Freedom from dependence on any kind of authority. 

Freedom from the dependence on being certain, content, psychologically secure.

Freedom from the compulsion to attach to any ol possible answer and instead be able to stick with a problem long enough to understand it even if it hurts. 

That kind of freedom my dude. 

It was important to understand the seeker before any seeking took place. That way we are not jumping from one illusion to another. Or one conflict to another. Which means no running from fear but staying with it. Basically freedom to learn/observe free of conflict. Conflict seems to destroy clear observation. 

Hell, this is all pretty recent for me. I’m actually fine with things the way they are now. Everything is just fine as it is. How we all treat each other is all I really care about now. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

@Jack Riveryoure saying first one must have awareness of conditioning or freedom before beginning to have insights into truth? 

Just not sure what you mean by learn/observe. Is it a seeking something specific? 

Edited November 15, 2018 by DrewNows

[who chit]

10 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Psychological freedom means an ability to start the search with humility. 
It was important to understand the seeker before any seeking takes place.

@Jack River Good stuff. To start the search with humility is an important point and something often overlooked.
The more inflated an ego one brings to the search,the harder it will be.

[Gabriel Antonio]

?

[CreamCat]

17 hours ago, winterknight said:

No, enlightenment does not make you more productive or efficient. Enlightenment is about understanding your spiritual nature.

If you want to "conquer addictions" and so on, the best thing to do is stop thinking about it as conquest, and realize that you have to investigate your inner mind. And the best way to start doing that is psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy.

Thanks for clear instructions. I'll look for psychoanalytic institutions in my region.

[Annoynymous]

@winterknight if enlightenment doesn't make one productive of efficient,  what is the point of attaining it? Isn't there any benefit at all?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Annoynymous

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

@winterknight if enlightenment doesn't make one productive of efficient,  what is the point of attaining it? Isn't there any benefit at all?

Yes, the end of suffering.

[winterknight]

8 hours ago, CreamCat said:

Thanks for clear instructions. I'll look for psychoanalytic institutions in my region.

My pleasure. Good luck.

[Annoynymous]

@winterknight there are certain areas in my life, i don't feel like doing a thing. But at first when i chose to do it, i was happy. in fact i feel irritation now doing those thing. I find myself in a position where i can't stop doing those things and it brings misery and sufferings. What is your suggestion?