I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There are still impulses such as "I need to do xyz" , "I don't like xyz". Yet, then there is awareness of the thought without immersion into "I" storytelling. So, each time the "I" thoughts appear, you recommend doing a quick self inquiry, such as "Who is that I that needs to do xyz?" to maintain a higher level of awareness?

Well, the thoughts themselves aren't the problem, exactly, but it's the sense -- and only you can tell if it is occurring -- of it being a burden.

If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total peace... well, no problem. But then again if that is there, the question will likely not arise as to what to do about it. It will feel blissful and you will not want to interrupt it. It's only when it's been interrupted already that the question arises.

[Outer]

Is the Self all that can ever exist, at any point  of time, in any universe?

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Well, the thoughts themselves aren't the problem, exactly, but it's the sense -- and only you can tell if it is occurring -- of it being a burden.

If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total peace... well, no problem. But then again if that is there, the question will likely not arise as to what to do about it. It will feel blissful and you will not want to interrupt it. It's only when it's been interrupted already that the question arises.

"Peace" and "Bliss" are loaded terms for my self. Would it be ok to rephrase it as "If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total nothingness/stillness/emptiness, well, no problem."

 

[winterknight]

16 minutes ago, Outer said:

Is the Self all that can ever exist, at any point  of time, in any universe?

Technically, the Self is beyond existence and time... they are within it.

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

"Peace" and "Bliss" are loaded terms for my self. Would it be ok to rephrase it as "If these thoughts are simply happening, as if automatically, in an atmosphere of total nothingness/stillness/emptiness, well, no problem."

Sure, sounds good. The issue is basically whether dissatisfaction arises. If there's no dissatisfaction, there's no problem.

Edited November 14, 2018 by winterknight

[Jack River]

14 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Technically, the Self is beyond existence and time... they are within it.

Sure, sounds good. The issue is basically whether dissatisfaction arises. If there's no dissatisfaction, there's no problem.

Maybe we can also say it’s the dependence on a state of satisfaction that brings about the possibility of dissatisfaction or a “problematic situation”? 

Seems to boil down to that fundamental resistance of what is or dependence on what should be according to our “selfs/egos” preferences which are based on conditions. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[winterknight]

13 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Maybe we can also say it’s the dependence on a state of satisfaction that brings about the possibility of dissatisfaction or a “problematic situation”? 

Seems to boil down to that fundamental resistance of what is or dependence on what should be according to our “selfs/egos” preferences which are based on conditions. 

I wouldn't say that, though, because that would be unhelpful. It encourages seekers to be dishonest with themselves, to pretend that they can simply go beyond dependence on states of satisfaction by an effort of will. They cannot.

They do want satisfaction, and it is why they seek, and it is what prods them to continue seeking until they find. That knowledge beyond satisfaction and dissatisfaction will come about by itself, and there will be no need to say it.

Edited November 14, 2018 by winterknight

[Jack River]

22 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I wouldn't say that, though, because that would be unhelpful. It encourages seekers to be dishonest with themselves, to pretend that they can simply go beyond dependence on states of satisfaction by an effort of will. They cannot.

 

As in that would still be action influenced by escaping what is. It’s in the opposite direction, but still within the confused state of being as the divided self. Depending on satisfaction can lead to an illusion just as conforming to the “idea” that i don’t need to.? Either way problematic situations arise in either case. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

20 minutes ago, winterknight said:

They do want satisfaction, and it is why they seek, and it is what prods them to continue seeking until they find. That knowledge beyond satisfaction and dissatisfaction will come about by itself, and there will be no need to say it.

Unconditioned SEEING/BEING ?

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[winterknight]

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

As in that would still be action influenced by escaping what is. It’s in the opposite direction, but still within the confused state of being. Depending on satisfaction can lead to an illusion just as conforming to the “idea” that i don’t need to.? Either way problematic situations arise in either case. 

A seeker needs to search until they find. One illusion is killed by another, better, higher one. That's how the search works.

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I wouldn't say that, though, because that would be unhelpful. It encourages seekers to be dishonest with themselves, to pretend that they can simply go beyond dependence on states of satisfaction by an effort of will. They cannot.

They do want satisfaction, and it is why they seek, and it is what prods them to continue seeking until they find. That knowledge beyond satisfaction and dissatisfaction will come about by itself, and there will be no need to say it.

That’s why I prefer “nothingness/emptiness” over “bliss”. Seekers seem likely to associate bliss as satisfaction and trigger the self to chase. The self is unlikely to chase “nothing/empty”

[Jack River]

 

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That’s why I prefer “nothingness/emptiness” over “bliss”. Seekers seem likely to associate bliss as satisfaction and trigger the self to chase. The self is unlikely to chase “nothing/empty”

As do I dude. It seems to establish a sense of necessary freedom to investigate/explore/observe/learn without that conditioned movement of ego/self. 

6 minutes ago, winterknight said:

A seeker needs to search until they find. One illusion is killed by another, better, higher one. That's how the search works.

For me, I needed the freedom to seek/explore without the conditioned self corrupting the search or learning. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@Serotoninluv seems the willingness to stay  in nothing/emptiness makes for a more honest/incorruptible observation/search for truth. 

[Jack River]

@Serotoninluv that sense of depending on reward or “bliss” seems to lead to illusion. As the self clings to such an idea of bliss as that “future state” to be attained. Ego seems to project its reward in time. Such as projecting enlightenment as a fixed thing in time/future. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@Jack River winter said it’s cool to substitute nothingness/emptiness for peace/bliss - so it’s the same context / concept he is pointing to. So, I’m considering his usage of peace/bliss to be synonymous with nothingness/stillness/emptiness in our conversation- unless he draws a new dinstinction

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

winter said it’s cool to substitute nothingness/emptiness for peace/bliss

Yeah I see them as the same anyhow. But from the place of confusion, fear, that divided state of self, observation seems to be constantly based on reward/illusion which makes it always partial/limited. You know what I mean. 

Freedom that I refer too was in itself bliss/peace-nothingness/emptiness. It was a freedom without searching that was influenced by a reaction of lack of freedom. 

See what I mean?

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@Jack River yea. Words take on new understanding as we go deeper and deeper. . . 

[Jack River]

@Serotoninluv @winterknight

Biggest barrier seemed for me to be freedom from a reward/punishment or (fear) to really start being able to transcend ego emotion/thought reaction cycle. You guys see this pattern being common among human consciousness?

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@Jack River For my self biggest obstacle is loss of control.

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Jack River For my self biggest obstacle is loss of control.

Fosho. But it seems to be the same obstacle. 

 

9 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Biggest barrier seemed for me to be freedom from a reward/punishment or (fear) to really start being able to transcend ego emotion/thought reaction cycle. You guys see this pattern being common among human consciousness?

As this movement from and away from fear implies control as the controller. As in an expression of the false division of self and what it wants to control. Seems the self and control/fear are all really the same. You see what I mean? 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

So yours and my obstacle seems to be very much related. As I assume is common across the board of human consciousness. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jack River