I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[ZX_man]

Can you talk more about psychotherapy as it relates to enlightenment? Are all therapists enlightened? Are most?

Edited November 14, 2018 by ZX_man

[winterknight]

7 minutes ago, ZX_man said:

Can you talk more about psychotherapy as it relates to enlightenment? Are all therapists enlightened? Are most?

No, most of them are not. But psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy (not just therapy in general) is extremely helpful for aligning your actions with your desires. This calms the mind, and the calm mind is the center of what enables you to perform effective self-inquiry -- and recognize your true nature.

[Achilles]

@winterknight Can you feel or experience infinite energy? I think you can, even if I'm not using the correct term. So can you use, if you want, some of that energy on a daily basis? Can you use much more energy than a non-enlightened one?  

My egotistical motivation for enlightenment is to get access to that infinite energy and experience it and use it to transform my reality in an artistic form. 

[winterknight]

12 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@winterknight The whole bit about enlightenment being a process is just another story in the mind. Just another illusion of the seeker. . . 

Illusory thoughts are connected to create illusory stories. Illusory stories are connected to form an illusory self. The illusory self sets up an illusory game of life. The self seeks to validate and protect itself. It must keep itself relevant to stay in the game.

Other selfs seek truth and liberation through enlightenment. They seek all over the world for years and years, only to realize they were enlightened all along.

The greatest cosmic joke ever told. . . 

Yup, it is absolutely a cosmic joke.

11 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@winterknight I hope I don't embarrass myself, but here goes.  Please correct me!

I have seen that all thoughts are me-thoughts, because all thoughts are about how this thought relates to "me". In this sense, everything I view around me (more thoughts) and touch and feel  (even more) are included in this false sense of self, as me-thoughts. That means this entire reality I perceive is me, the false I. Not saying reality itself, whatever that is, but just the one these me-thoughts are thinking about. 

Yes, that's true.

29 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Fosho. I feel ya. I see what you were getting at now. Of course I’m not referring to the idea/thought. 

“I” know that “I’m” blind 

1 minute ago, Achilles said:

@winterknight Can you feel or experience infinite energy? I think you can, even if I'm not using the correct term. So can you use, if you want, some of that energy on a daily basis? Can you use much more energy than a non-enlightened one?  

My egotistical motivation for enlightenment is to get access to that infinite energy and experience it and use it to transform my reality in an artistic form. 

Hrm... no, the infinite energy that enlightenment shows you that you are is not like that. Enlightenment may or may not let energy flow into your art. There is no guarantee about it. You have to give up expectations about what it will or will not do and accept that the Self will direct your energy where it wants it to go, not where your body-mind wants it to go.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

You have to give up expectations about what it will or will not do and accept that the Self will direct your energy where it wants it to go, not where your body-mind wants it to go.

That can be scary to a self.

[i am I AM]

Since I now perceive the Self wanting is not conceptual, what does your Self want now? Right now.

[seeking_brilliance]

9 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes, that's true.

@winterknight I'm sure these insights are very basic, but they sure feel good when it happens. Enjoy the ride they say. 

[Achilles]

 

Quote

Hrm... no, the infinite energy that enlightenment shows you that you are is not like that. Enlightenment may or may not let energy flow into your art. There is no guarantee about it. You have to give up expectations about what it will or will not do and accept that the Self will direct your energy where it wants it to go, not where your body-mind wants it to go.

Thank you! That's difficult for me. In my current level of development, I'm doing Kriya Yoga and meditation hoping that I can access more energy and enlightenment would be a being experience in that context. Leo says that to attain enlightenment is good to have an interest in truth for truth sake, and that's not my case. Maybe I have to continue to follow my passions until I get there. 

[winterknight]

29 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

That can be scary to a self.

Very true... surrender is scary. And liberating. But that's just why self-inquiry is suggested as the best way towards full surrender... you keep doing your thing until self-inquiry simply painlessly dissolves that "you."

25 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

Since I now perceive the Self wanting is not conceptual, what does your Self want now? Right now.

Self doesn't want, except as a figure of speech. Self is beyond desire.

22 minutes ago, Ero said:

@winterknight

I can see that yesterday was a long glimpse by seeker standards. Like" I " was no longer a thing. I can't even say it took any time, because The Self wasn't aware of anything-no time, past, present or future. It was literally nothing. A void. Impossible to explain it. That was while I was writing my previous post.  The I emerged back and now it's writing through what it perceives as" Ero". Yet the only thing I "remembers" is the experience of the being itself. (This is what I feel like, cause I'm attached now(yes I perceive now a now) to the identity.) But it's more like it never left me**. So I can't now remember anything from that glimpse. Is that because their an attachment /identity didn't exist? Feels like very close to deep sleep to me, yet I'm more conscious of being. I quoted you, because I wanted to ask you how do you mean to "get back" until it sticks? I can't see a casual link between me doing something and that experience. One doesn't exist, the other is all there is. 

**is this why I can recall and perceive the experience of being? It can't be a memory. 

Yeah, it's some sort of samadhi (absorption/trance) experience. As you say, it's a glimpse. A good thing.

You're right, you cannot directly force yourself back there. Conduct self-inquiry again and it will lead you near that void, and, at a time when you cannot predict and control, it will suck you in. All you can do is come near it through self-inquiry again and again. These things are confusing now, but later they will become simpler and clearer.

20 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@winterknight I'm sure these insights are very basic, but they sure feel good when it happens. Enjoy the ride they say. 

Yes, indeed. Definitely enjoy the ride!

15 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Thank you! That's difficult for me. In my current level of development, I'm doing Kriya Yoga and meditation hoping that I can access more energy and enlightenment would be a being experience in that context. Leo says that to attain enlightenment is good to have an interest in truth for truth sake, and that's not my case. Maybe I have to continue to follow my passions until I get there. 

Yes, I am all about that. Feel your emotions, let all your real desires enter your consciousness, and don't just do what you think you "should" do -- including pursuing enlightenment. Be honest about what you want (which itself is a discovery process) and pursue it, and that will ultimately lead you where you need to go.

[i am I AM]

@winterknight Thank you. Yes, it's what I mainly thought...well, that's intriguing. Is there no chooser, excluding myself of course? I know I'm no chooser in my present knowledge.

[CreamCat]

Can enlightenment make me a lot more productive than I am now? I have been pretty inefficient and lazy. I want to conquer addictions and become a master at execution. To master execution, I need to nail down inner game.

Does enlightenment make you do more stuff? How can I become more productive?

Another question : How do I know if anyone other than me is enlightened? I can't really look into other people's minds.

Edited November 14, 2018 by CreamCat

[graded24]

@winterknight Seekers in early stage like myself  often fall into the trap of confusing Yoganidra for abiding in the Self. Ramana spoke about this trap.  I suspect what @Ero has described above might be it. Could you please speak to how one can differentiate between the two? 

[non_nothing]

No matter how hard I try, I cannot find true only one when I ask the question "Who am I"

All I can find is, "I am none of A, B, C, D...." then I conclude to: I'm nothing

When I go "Sometimes I am A, but other times B, but other times C... but not anytime I am both A and B. " then I conclude to: I can be everything but not at once

When I intellectually acknowledge the illusion of time I finally conclude: I am everything at once

 

Maybe that is all there is, me chasing after an experience is snake eating its own tail

[winterknight]

7 hours ago, i am I AM said:

@winterknight Thank you. Yes, it's what I mainly thought...well, that's intriguing. Is there no chooser, excluding myself of course? I know I'm no chooser in my present knowledge.

There cannot be said to be a chooser. The Self is actually beyond the categories of chooser and non-chooser. From the mind's standpoint, how it all works is just never going to be understood... the mind can't grasp it.

6 hours ago, CreamCat said:

Can enlightenment make me a lot more productive than I am now? I have been pretty inefficient and lazy. I want to conquer addictions and become a master at execution. To master execution, I need to nail down inner game.

Does enlightenment make you do more stuff? How can I become more productive?

Another question : How do I know if anyone other than me is enlightened? I can't really look into other people's minds.

No, enlightenment does not make you more productive or efficient. Enlightenment is about understanding your spiritual nature.

If you want to "conquer addictions" and so on, the best thing to do is stop thinking about it as conquest, and realize that you have to investigate your inner mind. And the best way to start doing that is psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy.

You cannot know for sure if anyone other than you is enlightened. But if you are looking for a teacher, see if you feel a sense of peace in their presence and if their answers make sense. You'll have to follow your intuition.

6 hours ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight Seekers in early stage like myself  often fall into the trap of confusing Yoganidra for abiding in the Self. Ramana spoke about this trap.  I suspect what @Ero has described above might be it. Could you please speak to how one can differentiate between the two? 

Yoga nidra is a blissful state of mind experienced with your eyes closed (yoga nidra = "yogic sleep"). If you experience a blissful state with your eyes open and doing stuff, that's totally fine.

6 hours ago, Ero said:

@graded24

I know what you're talking about. I may be deceiving myself when I say this, but I don't think it was Yoganidra. Reason is:

3.I was actually working out - kicks and boxing. I probably was the furthest from relaxation. If it was after my yoga session and evening meditation, yep that's Yoganidra. During my 15min shavasana breathing I'm actually spasing out. Like I disintegrate. But (2) was radiating. I never thought of (1) as enlightening. 

P. S I may very much deceive myself. This may be a different kind of a Yoganidra. Idk

Maybe it feels like I'm protecting this experience. I'm not obsessive about getting to enlightenment. This was cool, it was a glimpse and that's it. Nothing less, nothing more. I'm continuing as the seeker again, who now at least sees he'll never reach enlightenment. There's not a connection between the seeker and the Self. Imagine him walking in a 2d world(piece of paper) . Before he ran after the shadow of something. After (2) he continues his road knowing he can't catch a shadow(aka understand /reach it) . You literally can't conceptualise that. 3D object on a piece of paper. We can make a projection to understand, as humans. Imagine now as you said about describing dimensions - a 4d projection in a 3D world But in our situations what he ran after is infinite.

Yup, that's right the seeker can never get there.  And yeah, if you were in it while working out it certainly wasn't yoga nidra. As above, yoga nidra is a blissful, mindless state with your eyes closed.

5 hours ago, non_nothing said:

No matter how hard I try, I cannot find true only one when I ask the question "Who am I"

All I can find is, "I am none of A, B, C, D...." then I conclude to: I'm nothing

When I go "Sometimes I am A, but other times B, but other times C... but not anytime I am both A and B. " then I conclude to: I can be everything but not at once

When I intellectually acknowledge the illusion of time I finally conclude: I am everything at once

 

Maybe that is all there is, me chasing after an experience is snake eating its own tail

No, this is intellectualizing self-inquiry. That's not the right way to go about it. The point is not to think about who you are.

The point is simple: right now, you know that you are. Right? You know "I am reading these words." You know that automatically, instantly, immediately, and it is beyond a shadow of a doubt.

So the question is: how do you know that? Where is that absolutely certain feeling of knowledge that "I am" coming from? Where in your field of experience ? If someone lit a match under your hand and then asked you where the heat was coming from, you wouldn't have to intellectually think about it ("sometimes matches heat hands and sometimes feet... I wonder which one it is this time?") -- you would know, immediately, that it was coming from your hand.

Similarly, it's not about thinking about theories of where it could be coming from, but literally trying to feel where that feeling of "I-ness" is coming from. Is it coming from your body? Is it coming from your mind somewhere? Hunt that feeling. And every time you think you've found it ("it's coming from my head") -- ask yourself who is aware of that ("who is aware of my head? I am") and then keep going ("but then where is that I coming from?").

So in this way, go deeper and deeper and focus on that feeling. It may be frustrating at first; you may not easily find it. But hold on to that feeling.

Stop only when you have a dramatic change of perspective about that "I" -- and enter a state of clear peace.... you'll know it when you have it. Then stay in that state. And if you fall out of it, repeat the self-inquiry.

Edited November 14, 2018 by winterknight

[Annoynymous]

@winterknight how can i know my true desire?

[tsuki]

@winterknight 

1. What is your reason to talk about enlightenment after you're enlightened?
2. Who are you talking to?

[winterknight]

14 minutes ago, Annoynymous said:

@winterknight how can i know my true desire?

It's a process of discovery. It starts with paying attention to your feelings -- those are always rooted in your body. If you think you want something, and then you imagine doing it, how do you feel? Do you feel tense or open? Happy or sad? If, for example, you say "I really want to be a rocket scientist," but then when you think about what it involves, you feel exhausted at the very idea. So try to pay attention to exactly how you feel and also what other thoughts to come mind. If you feel exhausted at the idea of all the math a rocket scientist would have to do, that may be telling you something about what you want in a career: a career that doesn't involve that much math.

Now that's just imagining options. Even more important to feel your emotions when you are actually doing stuff. You think you like tennis, but when you play -- how do you feel? Open and at peace? Then maybe you do like it. But if not... try different things.

Notice how your narrative can cover up your true emotions. For example, a friend succeeds at something you wanted to succeed at. You might feel jealousy, but then tell yourself "I'm happy for him." That's because you're not supposed to feel jealous of a friend. But if you are paying careful attention to your feelings, you can notice that jealousy and admit it to yourself. Don't judge your feelings. That doesn't mean you have to act on that jealousy, but there's nothing wrong with feeling it.

Also, I recommend to all seekers that they strongly consider psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy. This definitely helps with centering on your desire.

13 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

And with "ask yourself" you mean that I should somehow try to feel who is aware of me?

Could I skip the questions inside my head completely? To me it feels completely unnecessary to ask the actual question. Since I'm not allowed to use the intellect why would I ask a intellectual question? ("Who am I?"

It makes more sense to only use the awareness and feelings.

To your first question: yes, you can put it that way. I prefer focusing on the "I" concept, because I've found that goes deeper and is more relevant, but basically these are very similar.

And yes, you can skip the questions entirely. You can do it by feeling alone if you want. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by winterknight

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@winterknight 

1. What is your reason to talk about enlightenment after you're enlightened?
2. Who are you talking to?

Basically because I feel the urge to do so. And it's one appearance talking to other appearances, all in maya.

[tsuki]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Basically because I feel the urge to do so. And it's one appearance talking to other appearances, all in maya.

1. Do you have the feeling of absurdity when honestly trying to put it to words?
   Like: having the urge to say it clearly, but it always turns to ash in your mouth when you try your best?
2. Are you aware of the fluidity of meaning when you are answering the questions?
3. Are you trying to meet the person that asks the question at their level, or do you simply 'drop the nukes'?

Edited November 14, 2018 by tsuki

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

1. Do you have the feeling of absurdity when honestly trying to put it to words?
   Like: having the urge to say it clearly, but it always turns to ash in your mouth when you try your best?
2. Are you aware of the fluidity of meaning when you are answering the questions?
3. Are you trying to meet the person that asks the question at their level, or do you simply 'drop the nukes'?

1. Hrm, not when I'm describing the path. If someone asks me about my experience, yes.

2. What do you mean by "fluidity of meaning"?

3. Some of both. I'm not really thinking when I respond -- the mind is calm, and the answer is coming from some deep inner place automatically.