I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Jack River]

22 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Actually, in the end thought is itself illusion.

What I am saying is simply we can say that thought is a process or active movement and it is actually taking place. 

Thought is movement, but thought also tries to hold fast to itself and seek security in its meaning, as in the self that seeks psychological security in itself in accordance to the verbal/intellectual meaning. This is in itself an illusion. 

Also the content of thought when interpreted is a description of what is meant to be described. A way of looking at stuff and identifying stuff through an image. But the image is never what is being referred to. 

But as far as thought as a process in movement, thought can be also seen as actual, as in there is a physical reaction taking place in the body as thought moves. Whether or not this reaction takes place depends, from what I have witnessed, solely on the degree that the illusion is sustained by the belief (illusion) that the thinker is independent of thought content/image itself. Thought seems to activate as a response of the organism itself. But thought and its material process/movement in that sense is actual. 

I would say that this is active/movement/process within another  process. A reaction between the organism/environment. 

[EvilAngel]

What does one do to avoid going completely insane? Should  one avoid going completely insane?

[winterknight]

30 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Without asking the scientists I know their answer is: "There was no Consciousness whatsoever anywhere when there was no living creatures in the universe."

I assume you don't agree with that view?

You assume correctly. The whole universe is merely a thought in consciousness.

23 minutes ago, Strikr said:

is there such a thing as "kundalini energy" / "present being energy ", how would you call it ?

why did I experience such a power in all my body, was it delusion ?

if all thoughts are spiral lies, what remains words that point to a common truth ? such as an abstract path to enlightment, call this "path" "true",

what remains "true divine law" then to this reality ? is "karma" " law of attraction " a law of nature or a delusion of the false biased thought-self ?

why did I feel ( and can create this state whenever I want in meditation ) I just focus my self on breath, and create "thought" in my mind to block others thoughts " like nothing matter, nothing exist, I m now here in the space ", then I meditate and can feel it.

 feeling on a trip without drug is it delusion or real power of control in the body ? is there such a thing as a divine energy or natural energy flow ?

 

Kundalini, power in the body, karma, the law of attraction, trips, energy -- all are in the realm of illusion. Enlightenment is about the single reality that is unchanging, that is and has always been exactly the same. You can recognize that yourself if you simply inquire into who it is that is experiencing all these trips.

13 minutes ago, graded24 said:

What is it that gives Now its Reality? Why is the clock ticking Now real while the same clock ticking a second ago is not real? 

That is a misunderstanding of the Now. The clock is always unreal; even to call it a clock is wrong. When you remove the concept of a clock, what remains is the Now. That alone is real.

11 minutes ago, Jack River said:

What I am saying is simply we can say that thought is a process or active movement and it is actually taking place. 

Thought is movement, but thought also tries to hold fast to itself and seek security in its meaning, as in the self that seeks psychological security in itself in accordance to the verbal/intellectual meaning. This is in itself an illusion. 

Also the content of thought when interpreted is a description of what is meant to be described. A way of looking at stuff and identifying stuff through an image. But the image is never what is being referred to. 

But as far as thought as a process in movement, thought can be also seen as actual, as in there is a physical reaction taking place in the body as thought moves. Whether or not this reaction takes place depends, from what I have witnessed, solely on the degree that the illusion is sustained by the belief (illusion) that the thinker is independent of thought content/image itself. Thought seems to activate as a response of the organism itself. But thought and its material process/movement in that sense is actual. 

I would say that this is active/movement/process within another  process. A reaction between the organism/environment. 

You could say all this -- different people like different language -- but I prefer to say that thought in all its manifestations is simply a misconception. There is no such thing as movement, body, or organism. The idea that there is -- is just a thought. It is something that appears to be real, but actually doesn't exist.

10 minutes ago, EvilAngel said:

What does one do to avoid going completely insane? Should  one avoid going completely insane?

Yes, one should avoid going insane. To avoid this, one should get psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy. Follow the link and PM me if you need more help getting a referral. If you're feeling like actively hurting yourself or others, go and check yourself into a hospital. Otherwise you are harming your chances at the spiritual search.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[Jack River]

8 minutes ago, winterknight said:

There is no such thing as movement, body, or organism

Not talking about the content(word/image).

life is movement, life is change. 

What is can be seen as being both dynamic and still. 

Many people do not seem to be in touch with thought as movement. This to me seems to make for a rather impossible  type of awareness. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Strikr]

not delusion to me but whatever, I use word to point to a "life force energy" I don't care about the name, thing is, experience a state as powerful as on drug, without drug, is not something "normal" to my old "I self".

maybe just the drop of ego.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Strikr

[SgtPepper]

@winterknight You said previously that Maya cannot be said to exist or not exist. So why do you keep saying it's an illusion? 

Also doesn't enlightenment (the unchanging) and Maya ( the changing) indicate duality. Truth vs Illusion. 

seems confusing. How do you go about seeing everything as one and yet make the distinctions between Maya and consciousness?

[graded24]

@winterknight 

Quote

That is a misunderstanding of the Now. The clock is always unreal; even to call it a clock is wrong. When you remove the concept of a clock, what remains is the Now. That alone is real.

Is sinking the mind in the Now (not the phenomena in the Now, but the essence of the Now), and sinking the mind in the Self, one and the same? 

Edited November 13, 2018 by graded24

[Manjushri]

@winterknight I searched the post and saw that nobody asked these two questions : 

How did "you" get "enlightened"?

How does one become enlightened in general?

[winterknight]

 

14 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Not talking about the content(word/image).

life is movement, life is change. 

What is can be seen as being both dynamic and still. 

Many people do not seem to be in touch with thought as movement. This to me seems to make for a rather impossible  type of awareness. 

I don't understand. You say many people do not seem to be in touch with thought as movement. What does that mean?

11 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

@winterknight You said previously that Maya cannot be said to exist or not exist. So why do you keep saying it's an illusion? 

Also doesn't enlightenment (the unchanging) and Maya ( the changing) indicate duality. Truth vs Illusion. 

seems confusing. How do you go about seeing everything as one and yet make the distinctions between Maya and consciousness?

It is precisely the characteristic of kind of illusion of maya that it appears to exist, but actually does not. So that which appears to exist but does not -- cannot be said to either exist or not exist. But if you want to simplify it, it simply doesn't exist, it only appears to.

Yes, enlightenment and maya are dualistic words pointing to something nondual. The nondual cannot be indicated directly.

The distinction is made between maya and Self for the sake of seekers (yes, who themselves ultimately are already enlightened.. but it doesn’t seem that way to them...)

3 minutes ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight 

Is sinking the mind in the Now, and sinking the mind in the Self, one and the same? 

Well, now I'm not quite sure what you mean by the Now. And I don't quite know what you mean by sinking the mind.

So let me rephrase it.

The key point is very simple: you need to be in a clear, calm, mentally peaceful state where the normal "I" sense has vanished. If you can get to that state via any means -- I recommend self-inquiry -- stay in it. 

If you have experienced that state, and then have doubts like "why is the clock real in the Now but not otherwise" -- that probably means you have fallen out of that state. So repeat and deepen the inquiry. The goal is to stay in that state at all times.

[Outer]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I don't understand. You say many people do not seem to be in touch with thought as movement. What does that mean?

Good luck figuring it out. If you do, you will for all of us. There's a few users (possible the same user) saying those things.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Outer

[winterknight]

10 minutes ago, Gligorije said:

@winterknight I searched the post and saw that nobody asked these two questions : 

How did "you" get "enlightened"?

How does one become enlightened in general?

Well, I said in my first post I wouldn't talk much about my path, but I basically got enlightened in the same way that I recommend others do so:

The main game is psychologically aligning yourself with your desire, including through psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy, and also performing Ramana Maharshi's self-inquiry deeply, intensely, and continuously at all times... until you see directly what you really are. You will know for yourself when that happens. If you get an insight, and then fall out of it (almost certain to happen), get back into it via inquiry, over and over and over again until it sticks. You'll know when that happens.

[winterknight]

4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

So there actually never was matter floating around without any living creatures..

That's difficult to accept for me, that's like throwing all science in the garbish bin. Hm, oh well. I guess I need to start doing self inquiry full-time.

Well, science is perfectly correct on its own terms. It understands the physical universe. It is not much concerned with spiritual and philosophical questions.  

No need to throw science away. Simply understand its limits. It applies to scientific matters only. Don't expect to understand the real meaning of existence through it.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, winterknight said:

If you have experienced that state, and then have doubts like "why is the clock real in the Now but not otherwise" -- that probably means you have fallen out of that state. So repeat and deepen the inquiry. The goal is to stay in that state at all times.

Is self inquiry thoughtless? Or just free of rational / logical thinking?

As an aside. .  . the shaman in an Aya retreat in Peru told us the same thing. If we have thoughts like that, drink another serving of Aya

[winterknight]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Is self inquiry thoughtless? Or just free of rational thought?

As an aside. .  . the shaman in an Aya retreat in Peru told us the same thing. If we have thoughts like that, drink another serving of Aya

Well, technically self-inquiry isn't necessarily free of thought... especially at the beginning, you might have to think about why you aren't certain things. "I'm the son of so-and-so, and I do this job, and I'm the kid who broke his arm at the age of 8 while playing tennis, right?"

But then you might have to think about the fact that "I am aware" of each of those things... and thus none of them can be the light that illuminates all experience. None of them can be the I. So that's the application of rational thought to experience. 

Self-inquiry will, however, eventually lead to a thought-free state. Or rather an I-free state. Or rather a state free of the normal, burdensome I. Even there you can have thoughts, but they will have an entirely different feeling than thoughts had outside that state. They will not even be felt to be thoughts.

That state is of course your true & permanent nature. It is a "state" only because you are pulled back out of it because of mental habit... which of course is what has to be overcome through repeated practice of inquiry.

Oh, and interesting re: the shaman

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[SgtPepper]

17 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It is precisely the characteristic of kind of illusion of maya that it appears to exist, but actually does not. So that which appears to exist but does not -- cannot be said to either exist or not exist. But if you want to simplify it, it simply doesn't exist, it only appears to.

Yes, enlightenment and maya are dualistic words pointing to something nondual. The nondual cannot be indicated directly.

The distinction is made between maya and Self for the sake of seekers (yes, who themselves ultimately are already enlightened.. but it doesn’t seem that way to them...)

why isn't appearance a sign of existence? Sure Maya is constantly changing, but its Maya, its there, its distinct, it's part of reality. For example, If I internally feel my hand. I can become aware of the sensation that is visually associated with my hand. Yes this sensation is rather fleeting, but its still in my present experience. There appears to be realness to it.

is it that in comparison to consciousness, it is illusory because consciousness is the realest due to the unchanging experience?

I ask this because I notice many people on this path become nihilistic and depressed when they start to think their bodies, ideas, and mind are illusory, but to me they feel (<-- part of Maya) real and as a manifestation from consciousness. 

Why is that in high consciousness states I feel like I am my body AND consciousness of body?

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by SgtPepper

[graded24]

13 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Well, now I'm not quite sure what you mean by the Now. And I don't quite know what you mean by sinking the mind.

So let me rephrase it.

The key point is very simple: you need to be in a clear, calm, mentally peaceful state where the normal "I" sense has vanished. If you can get to that state via any means -- I recommend self-inquiry -- stay in it. 

If you have experienced that state, and then have doubts like "why is the clock real in the Now but not otherwise" -- that probably means you have fallen out of that state. So repeat and deepen the inquiry. The goal is to stay in that state at all times.

Ok great, because that was going to be my next question.  As i notice the changeless, timeless Reality in the background of the Now, mind starts sinking and a general peace arrives. Should I stay there or should i ask 'who is experiencing this'? There is no "I" in that state, unless i bring it up by asking a question like that. 

[winterknight]

3 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

why isn't appearance a sign of existence? Sure Maya is constantly changing, but its Maya, its there, its distinct, it's part of reality. For example, If I internally feel my hand. I can become aware of the sensation that is visually associated with my hand. Yes this sensation is rather fleeting, but its still in my present experience. There appears to be realness to it.

is that in comparison to consciousness, it is illusory because consciousness is the realest due to the unchanging experience?

I ask this because I notice many people on this path become nihilistic and depressed when they start to think their bodies, ideas, and mind are illusory, but to me they feel (<-- part of Maya) real and as a manifestation from consciousness. 

Why is that in high consciousness states I feel like I am my body AND consciousness of body. 

 

Well this is where it gets tricky. Part of the illusion aspect of maya is that the very idea that it appears at all is part of that illusion. Seekers cannot understand this, which is why it is rarely said. Though I've said it on this thread a few times.

"Appearance" is a mental category. The reason maya is illusory is that the mind creates all categories, but when you see that the mind is a self-referential thought against the background of the Self, that it only exists through the lens of itself, all the categories are seen as wrong.

"Hand," "sensation," etc. -- all are in these categories.

When you remove all the categories, you are reduced to silence. You cannot say that anything is happening or appearing.

There will be no nihilism if the mind is silent and the Self is recognized. The Self is absolute peace and fulfillment and perfection, and it is compensation for all the "losses" of illusory entities like the body and mind.

 

[winterknight]

9 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Ok great, because that was going to be my next question.  As i notice the changeless, timeless Reality in the background of the Now, mind starts sinking and a general peace arrives. Should I stay there or should i ask 'who is experiencing this'? There is no "I" in that state, unless i bring it up by asking a question like that. 

No, if you are experiencing peace and an I-free state, no need to disturb it.

6 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Yes, I know, and I agree.

But science is very good at knowing most stuff what happened after Big Bang. It's good at knowing how the heat after Big Bang cooled down over time, matter started to clump together, planets formed, amino acids formed foldable proteins, biological life started, evolved, etc.

That's all physical stuff (you said they understand physical stuff. And I agree.)

So, if you are saying that there was never a time in the universe when there didn't exist living animals, then that would be like throwing the basics of science in the bin.

But if you do say that there was a time when there didn't exist any animals, then how was Consciousness like when there was just matter floating around and no life? It's difficult to imagine..

To take the dream/waking analogy, science operates within the dream. Science is correct within the dream. But the dream science does not apply to the waking state.

"Living animals," "time," etc. -- these are all dream concepts. You cannot mix dream concepts and the Self.

In the Self there are neither living animals nor time. Your question is like asking "When I woke up from the dream, did all the other people in my dream wake up too?"

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[winterknight]

4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

@winterknight Okay.

I edited my post above and added this: "Can you imagine yourSelf as Consciousness existing as floating matter everywhere in universe at the same time? "Okay now I will clump together those 399 atoms here. And at the same time I will clump together these 738 atoms 38492 lightyears away from here." etc."

Hahaha. Luckily that's not how it works.  The universe is a mystery... but if you inquire into the I that mystery is resolved in a way that you won't be able to understand unless you experience it yourself.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[SgtPepper]

3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Well this is where it gets tricky. Part of the illusion aspect of maya is that the very idea that it appears at all is part of that illusion. Seekers cannot understand this, which is why it is rarely said. Though I've said it on this thread a few times.

"Appearance" is a mental category. The reason maya is illusory is that the mind creates all categories, but when you see that the mind is a self-referential thought against the background of the Self, that it only exists through the lens of itself, all the categories are seen as wrong.

"Hand," "sensation," etc. -- all are in these categories.

When you remove all the categories, you are reduced to silence. You cannot say that anything is happening or appearing.

There will be no nihilism if the mind is silent and the Self is recognized. The Self is absolute peace and fulfillment and perfection, and it is compensation for all the "losses" of illusory entities like the body and mind.

 

Thank you. Your answer was helpful.  

To reiterate. Maya is illusory because it uses itself to create depth or the appearances of depth and complexity, but in actuality that depth and complexity is a creation, created to appear a particular way when really it is just Maya. Like an object that can shapeshift into anything, but when you really stare it, its illusory because it lacks any real definable characteristic besides illusory?

I know its one thing to understand something conceptually and another to become conscious, but I have had glimpses of this stuff. 

I hope one Leo can make a video about it. I will definitely look into maharishi's work/practices.