This Word "enlightenment"

[Cuzzo]

It has me doubting the significance of of enlightenment or truth actually is. I feel like a lot of people on this forum believe that reaching enlightenment is like getting a spiritual degree. Once you have it, boom, you're done. You have reached the final stage. I believe that Leo mentioned in one of his videos that once you leave the matrix, that you no longer have to work on staying out of it...

 

But I am trying to question everything I hear and I am told. So it makes me question if this idea of enlightenment actually exist? How can we ever reach the end of infinite awareness? How can there be a spectrum from low consciousness to enlightenment? Are these not all concepts that we place labels and measurements on? 

Eckart Tolle, Sadguru, Mooji, Matt Khan. Many of these yogis and enlightened masters are seen as the people who have reached the final stage and transcended the ego. But have they really? What if there is more awareness for them to attain? How do we actually know what the final transcendence actually is? How could you ever be 100% sure? 

[oschi]

4 minutes ago, Cuzzo said:

It has me doubting the significance of of enlightenment or truth actually is. I feel like a lot of people on this forum believe that reaching enlightenment is like getting a spiritual degree. Once you have it, boom, you're done. You have reached the final stage. I believe that Leo mentioned in one of his videos that once you leave the matrix, that you no longer have to work on staying out of it...

 

But I am trying to question everything I hear and I am told. So it makes me question if this idea of enlightenment actually exist? How can we ever reach the end of infinite awareness? How can there be a spectrum from low consciousness to enlightenment? Are these not all concepts that we place labels and measurements on? 

Eckart Tolle, Sadguru, Mooji, Matt Khan. Many of these yogis and enlightened masters are seen as the people who have reached the final stage and transcended the ego. But have they really? What if there is more awareness for them to attain? How do we actually know what the final transcendence actually is? How could you ever be 100% sure? 

The paradox is that you must stop thinking that technical^^ You just let it go. I totally feel you. I also question this whole idea of enlightment. Many years ago I told myself that I want to reach enlightment. What I actually got was some inner peace to some degree. But I also had moments in my life where something weird happened. I shut down everything around me and it put me in a euphoric state because I appreciated every little thing. This form of appreciation only lasts for a while but I would love to have it permanently. "Enlightment" means whatever you want it to mean. But for me it means to remove limits and see life from a better perspective. Knowing at any moment that what we have right here is the most valuable thing that there can be. This adventure that only lasts for a lifetime.

[Consept]

 

 I agree, I don't really like the way it's used because it puts an end goal in your mind and really true enlightenment is all about the present. Once you say I want enlightenment you're putting in a desire to be enlightened, so you can't be desire less which is one of the attributes of being enlightened.                                                                                   As humans we tend to think in a linear way as in, once this happens then this will happen then I'll be at the end. The point of this spiritual stuff is that there is no end or beginning there only is what there is which is now. All else is a concept therefore enlightenment in the future is just an idea, to really get to it you'd have to give up on it and just experience what is 

[Henri]

Most people mentioned on this site as enlightened are simply not.

I guess to the average american youngster being a bit relaxed looks like enlightenment to them, they have not a clue.

The chance that one of the participants here will become enlightened is negligible.

[Cuzzo]

7 minutes ago, Henri said:

Most people mentioned on this site as enlightened are simply not.

Are you referring to actual posters in this community or enlightened masters? 

[Henri]

Referring to the `masters`.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, Henri said:

Most people mentioned on this site as enlightened are simply not.

I guess to the average american youngster being a bit relaxed looks like enlightenment to them, they have not a clue.

The chance that one of the participants here will become enlightened is negligible.

But many advanced spiritual people say that enlightenment being rare is a myth? (Or worded differently, I do not remember the exact thing)

Edited April 5, 2016 by Dodoster

[Consept]

That's why you should just take enlightenment as a goal off the table and just be as present and as conscious as you can. If you think you're enlightened or nearly enlightened you're probably not. So just make try and be who you are moment to moment, most 'masters' say once you stop looking you become enlightened. 

One criticism I have of Leo, although he does kind of address it, is he presents enlightenment luke it's some goal like completing a college course and once there you're sorted, but I don't believe it works like that. Technically everyone is already an enlightened being it's just we've been convinced were not so we just have to realise what we really are again

[Cuzzo]

5 hours ago, Consept said:

That's why you should just take enlightenment as a goal off the table and just be as present and as conscious as you can. If you think you're enlightened or nearly enlightened you're probably not. So just make try and be who you are moment to moment, most 'masters' say once you stop looking you become enlightened. 

One criticism I have of Leo, although he does kind of address it, is he presents enlightenment luke it's some goal like completing a college course and once there you're sorted, but I don't believe it works like that. Technically everyone is already an enlightened being it's just we've been convinced were not so we just have to realise what we really are again

Yeah I agree with you. I see so many people posting on here claiming/asking if someone is enlightened. We have people on here claiming to have become enlightened (no disrespect to the dude who made that thread, it's just kind of funny how that worked out for you) and we have people who claim to know how difficult it is to reach this .

I guess in the past few days after seeing this idea of truth treated as a novelty I started to wonder wtf were even talking about. It feels similar to religion. We have all gained this idea of what truth is, so now we are putting all these parameters on it and layering it with more ideas and more concepts until we're all in a giant circle jerk of dogma. 

One cartoon I really like to watch (even though I'm twenty three lol) is adventure time. I remember one episode that Finn comes across a being in space who can take him to the realm of the beginning and end. This being listed all the emotions Finn would be free of (happiness, lonliness, jealousy etc) 

finn replies with "you make that not sound so bad" and the being responds "it's not bad! It's simply a different state of being!". Ultimately Finn decides to stay in his 'meat reality, as he feels like he has more work that he wants to put into it.

Point I am trying to make is that maybe placing a negative tone on our 'meat reality' isn't the best way to view it. 

[WelcometoReality]

12 hours ago, Cuzzo said:

It has me doubting the significance of of enlightenment or truth actually is. I feel like a lot of people on this forum believe that reaching enlightenment is like getting a spiritual degree. Once you have it, boom, you're done. You have reached the final stage. I believe that Leo mentioned in one of his videos that once you leave the matrix, that you no longer have to work on staying out of it...

 

But I am trying to question everything I hear and I am told. So it makes me question if this idea of enlightenment actually exist? How can we ever reach the end of infinite awareness? How can there be a spectrum from low consciousness to enlightenment? Are these not all concepts that we place labels and measurements on? 

Eckart Tolle, Sadguru, Mooji, Matt Khan. Many of these yogis and enlightened masters are seen as the people who have reached the final stage and transcended the ego. But have they really? What if there is more awareness for them to attain? How do we actually know what the final transcendence actually is? How could you ever be 100% sure? 

Let's compare enlightenment with juggling.

When you try to juggle the first times you'll never really juggle, you will try and throw the balls into the air but there is actually no success in catching and throwing the balls. They will just hit the ground over and over. You continue to practice and then suddenly it all falls into place and you can now juggle. Does this mean you are a master juggler? No, even though you know how to juggle there is now the process of mastering it. And can you ever learn everything about juggling? No, the path of juggling is never finished. There is always refinements to be done.

[Nic]

13 hours ago, Cuzzo said:

-It has me doubting the significance...

- I feel like a lot of people on this forum believe that...

-But I am trying to question everything I hear and I am told. So it makes me question if....?

How can we ever reach the end....?

How can there be a spectrum from....?

-Are these not all concepts that ...? 

-But have they really?

-What if there is...?

-How do we actually know what ?

-How could you ? 

Hi Cuzzo, You just forgot to question one thing. Doubting the question-answering process... What are you looking for exactly? Feel good after we all give you an answer that will satisfy your rational mind so you don't have doubts anymore until the next question comes up, or do you want peace in your mind. Not to have doubts will satisfy your ego and reinforce it. Embrace that state of being in doubt! Observe the feeling without judging it!

None of the questions above are valid as no one can give you an answer that could be close to the truth. Too many factors are at play here. 

Those questions are as abstract as what had Mozart on his mind while writing this or that symphony. Stop loosing your time running in your wheel.  

Forget about enlightenment. It's a carrot you are focused on, notice and see the beauty of landscape instead!

[Cuzzo]

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

Let's compare enlightenment with juggling.

When you try to juggle the first times you'll never really juggle, you will try and throw the balls into the air but there is actually no success in catching and throwing the balls. They will just hit the ground over and over. You continue to practice and then suddenly it all falls into place and you can now juggle. Does this mean you are a master juggler? No, even though you know how to juggle there is now the process of mastering it. And can you ever learn everything about juggling? No, the path of juggling is never finished. There is always refinements to be done.

I feel you on that man. I love basketball, and after mj retired everyone assumed that he hit the peak of greatness. Nobody could bring such a game changing element the way he did. But now you have Curry who has basically broken the game of basketball with his unstoppable shooting. 

[Cuzzo]

6 minutes ago, Nic said:

Hi Cuzzo, You just forgot to question one thing. Doubting the question-answering process... What are you looking for exactly? Feel good after we all give you an answer that will satisfy your rational mind so you don't have doubts anymore until the next question comes up, or do you want peace in your mind. Not to have doubts will satisfy your ego and reinforce it. Embrace that state of being in doubt! Observe the feeling without judging it!

None of the questions above are valid as no one can give you an answer that could be close to the truth. Too many factors are at play here. 

Those questions are as abstract as what had Mozart on his mind while writing this or that symphony. Stop loosing your time running in your wheel.  

Forget about enlightenment. It's a carrot you are focused on, notice and see the beauty of landscape instead!

Yeah I actually see all this doubt and 'not knowing' as progress. Thanks!

Edited April 5, 2016 by Cuzzo

[Leo Gura]

On 4/5/2016 at 0:14 AM, Henri said:

Most people mentioned on this site as enlightened are simply not.

Be careful about imposing your own biases on who qualifies as being enlightened or not.

[Ben]

Enlightenment exists, but you'll never, ever, ever know for sure until you see for yourself. Can you convince a fish that there's a world outside of water?