Is Enlightenment The Next Big Thing, Again?

[Newpaz]

Spurred on by Leo's latest video on the benefits of enlightenment, a few questions about the concept that have been in my mind for a while resurfaced and I thought here may be a good place to ask others for their views.

I started my personal development journey about a year ago now and I have come across many avenues which talk about enlightenment, from Buddhism to Stoicism, via Taoism, of course the teaching of Jesus, and many philosophies. All in all they all prescribe similar-ish behaviour with a view to attaining enlightenment.

The thing that has me puzzled is these ideas have been around for thousands of years yet, we are still struggling with it. 

If enlightenment really is the end all and be all of life, how come we (the human race) haven't got it figured out yet despite thousands of years of teachings?

I realise it is 'hard work' to de-condition yourself from society's conditioning but I can't help wondering if we are really on the right path still flogging that horse...any thoughts?

[Grasshopper]

Society's coming along. It's much different than 2000 years ago, but still not there yet. Evolution takes time, a lot of time.

[Consept]

@Newpaz

Very valid and interesting question (I don't really have an answer but just adding some thoughts).

This may seem out there but there does seem to be a force, or it may even be our own egos, that supress these teachings that you mentioned. If you think about it most enlightened people that have talked about it publicly and have gained big followings have usually been killed. In fact even just having liberal views and power is enough to get you killed. So I wouldn't say it's far fetched to say that the past and present systems (the powers that be) don't really want us to know about this stuff. Which from their point of view makes sense as their aims are profit and power which would be at risk if everyone trusted themselves and just did what they want. It would make sense to just brainwash people so they become 'productive members of society'. 

Now when you think about it this has gone on for 100s of years, previously religion was used to control and still is to a lesser extent, now it's more money and society defined success. In both cases fear of lack plays a big part. 

So the point is we are all brought up in a way where 'enlightenment' or the path of true religion are very alien concepts and in fact get in the way of what we've been led to believe will bring us joy (money etc). So to say to someone after they've been brought up in this mindset that it's all meaningless, is to say everything you've been taught and even you yourself are a lie. It's very hard for the ego to take that on board. 

So ultimately I think enlightenment  (I don't really like using the word) is the only way, it's just a matter of how long it takes for life's distractions to no longer have an effect or for your suffering to get really bad in which case you'll be forced to the spiritual side of things 

[Newpaz]

@Consept @Grasshopper thanks for your contributions, sorry it took so long to respond, I was hoping to get more input and also trying to figure out why I was feeling uneasy about this enlightenment business being so heavily promoted as the answer to life, despite the idea being around for so long.

I think I got my answer today, thanks to a comment @Leo Gura made to someone asking him which youtubers he could recommend. His answer was ' you are asking me to promote all my competitors?!'.

That answer made me realise why i am uncomfortable with this big enlightenment push as The Answer, in so many ways, the main one being it seems people's misery is (still) big business. Disappointing. And possibly as far from enlightened behaviour as one can get.

[Isle of View]

On 5.4.2016 at 7:40 AM, Newpaz said:

The thing that has me puzzled is these ideas have been around for thousands of years yet, we are still struggling with it. 

If enlightenment really is the end all and be all of life, how come we (the human race) haven't got it figured out yet despite thousands of years of teachings?

 

The problem is, there are always some people in the power structures of the society who don't want the world to be a happy place. They would lose too much if people were well, healthy and happy.

You don't need to look too far to find your own examples for it.

Additionally, bad food, bad education systems, misinformation, wars (motivated by greed and fear) keep the populations on a low level. It's designed that way so you don't even dare to find out who you really are, who your neigbours really are, the people your government goes into war with are and the list goes on.

Actually we live in very interesting times. The speed of communication, the possibility to connect to almost everyone, bypass the propaganda machine of of governments brings us into a very new position. We can unveil the lies, see through them, connect to likeminded people and communicate and share what we've found.

And this alone raises the collective understanding of what is actually going on with the human race.

It's not that humans are not capable of peace and high counsciousness. The only weak point is, people are gullible and abide to authority.

My 2 cents
(for what it's worth)

~Chris

P.S.
This book has some good answers why it is that way and what it needs to change that:
http://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/2848-book-the-sociopath-next-door-martha-stout-1010/

 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Isle of View

[Consept]

@Newpaz

I get where you're coming from and I did notice that comment from Leo myself, which I don't think I'd agree with also but that's his perogative to do that and doesn't affect me really, point being don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. 

The other thing I noticed in your comment is where you said 'answer for life'. Enlightenment (I don't really like using the word) isn't an answer for life, life doesn't need an answer it just is and so it's the realisation that life just is. I would see it more as the full acceptance of life and your position in it which is as part of a bigger whole. 

[Newpaz]

@Isle of View Chris, funny you should mention Sociopathy, i will admit knowing little about it but was discussing just the other day with my lodger how all of us, given the 'right' set of circumstances, could very well be sociopaths.

Interestingly too, you mentioning the interesting times we live in due to speed of communication and ease of connection and information sharing, such a double edge sword this. Last night I decided that perhaps instead of going in a cave (to find ourselves or something, apparently the best way to enlightenment), all we need to do is disconnect from the internet. These past few days, I have observed/witnessed some appalling behaviour from mankind on line, I have already disconnected from most media (tv, papers, Facebook (i only have a fake account to observe what's going on out there), Twitter etc) to get away from propaganda (and have realised that away from the noise, life can be wonderful :)), now observing its effect on the masses makes me uneasy, I am not sure those people (the masses) can see any truths to be honest, I have also observed that every time the masses join forces for a common cause, 'good or bad' if there is such a thing, behaviour inevitably becomes close minded (in the 'we are right everyone else is wrong' way and all that entails) and I can't help feeling it is a lost battle, so whereas you see it as a great time to communicate with mankind to improve it, I believe I had best switch off the internet (go in my cave in effect). I did try and delete this account yesterday but apparently the request needs to be reviewed first (wtf??).

@Consept i'm afraid if i observe behaviour that goes against what someone is 'selling' the baby gets chucked, I prefer people who walk the talk rather than talk it, especially when someone makes it their business to 'better' us (Gandhi for example, who I know Leo is a big fan of, got chucked when I found out about his sexual behaviour a couple of years ago), I can't help losing all trust in someone if I observe something that goes against the grain of what they are saying. It's instinctive and I have discovered recently instinct can be a good thing to listen to.

Indeed not a big deal who Leo follows on YouTube (although it would have been interesting, I like various perceptives) his response completely goes against the very idea he is trying to sell (enlightenment), especially his use of the word 'competitors'. I showed my lodger, who isn't into this kind of stuff (enlightenment), his first comment was 'competing for what?' I couldn't answer him. His second was 'if this isn't ego in action, I don't know what is!'. Also as Leo has mentioned many times, 'don't just believe anything I say, find out for yourselves', I found it a bit rich he is cagey about who he follows, but also that he sees the people he follows (who surely are worthy of something if he follows them) as competitors, rather than individuals who help his (our) growth. Made me wonder how he saw us.  Leo came into my life at the right time, opened my mind to a lot, and I am very grateful for this, however, I think it's time I moved on. I had been quite excited about this new forum to be honest (at last somewhere ideas, tips and tricks about self development can be exchanged), however it didn't turn out how I would have hoped. People are people it seems, like @Pinocchio said, nothing ever changes. 

It looks like I have similar views as you on how to live a happy life. However I think to get there, one needs to look deep inside and sort out what needs to/can be, self develop in effect, then when the mind is free from chatter, one gets to really appreciate life, which is indeed rather magical as is (for those of us born in the right places anyway), away from the noise. I have experienced some intense 'enlightenment' (I too am not keen on that word) just taking a friend's dog for a walk, something I do every day after work. Literally priceless that's what made me think yesterday, maybe it's best I leave the internet chatter behind and enjoy what is right in front of me.

[Azrael]

On 5.4.2016 at 7:40 AM, Newpaz said:

If enlightenment really is the end all and be all of life, how come we (the human race) haven't got it figured out yet despite thousands of years of teachings?

Great question, man! I think if you really want a scientifically-grounded answer read up on the Graves model or watch Leo's video about that. You can apply the model to certain individuals or to whole societies. So, if you analyze that you find out that the western world is kind of orange. Or let's say transforming from blue to orange, I wouldn't say we are there yet completely.

And if we don't blow ourselves up we still need a few years - I don't know how long maybe a few hundred years, maybe just some decades - to go to green and then to yellow and so on. And even if we are at yellow, this doesn't mean that everyone gets enlightenment at some point. It is more probable that more and more people will chose to investigate that at these stages though, I'd say.

So, everything is fine. An everything needs its time. Give our world the time it needs and let it still live in its illusion that ego + power + money + destroying everything that isn't you is the road the go. Maybe we are intelligent enough to not use a-bombs and have a future here. I doubt that though.

To Leo's quote you mentioned, I wanted to ask you one thing: Are ethics or let's say your behavior the key to realizing your own nature? I doubt that. I think it can help, but I doubt that it's the key. 

Enlightenment is not the next big thing. I would love it if it were.

[Isle of View]

Hello @Newpaz

3 hours ago, Newpaz said:

@Isle of View Chris, funny you should mention Sociopathy, i will admit knowing little about it but was discussing just the other day with my lodger how all of us, given the 'right' set of circumstances, could very well be sociopaths.

If you think this, chances are you don't know what a sociopath really is.
The book above has good insights for you. It will change the way you think about the subject, and yourself.

 

3 hours ago, Newpaz said:

Interestingly too, you mentioning the interesting times we live in due to speed of communication and ease of connection and information sharing, such a double edge sword this.

I agree. Every technology is a two edged sword. 

 

Kind regards,
Chris