Should I join the military?

[saffron]

Hey fellow Actualizers,

 

I've been lurking this forum without an account for months, but I have now come to a realization that I don't know how to resolve.

 

After seeing Leo's "Mechanics of the Evil" video, my view on reality has been more shaken than anything in my life could. I have started to take notice of how I commit evil my self, and how I hypocritically pass off my own evil. This personal conundrum of mine has hit me so hard that I have decided to join the forum and get direct insight, whereas I can't on Leo's YouTube comments.

 

When I was 15, it hit home to me how blessed I am to be born American. The richest nation on. The strongest, I don't have to worry about other countries trying to meddle in mine. I am so blessed to voice my opinion without the worry of being persecuted. Everything I love about life came out of America.

 

I know there is more to stopping evil than stop seeing evil, but you have to stop "doing evil." I have now been wondering, If I do join, I'll be contributing to "evil" more than the taxpayer who funds them. The US military has committed horrific crimes that so many people are shockingly ignorant of. 

Before anyone comments, YES, I AM VERY WELL AWARE THAT PRAGERU IS A SPIRAL DYNAMICS STAGE BLUE ORGANIZATION. I disagree with them on a lot of things and they are pretty much American supremacists, which I am against, and I love America. 

If Leo is reading this, I know that you tend to lean more democratically than republican (I don't consider my self republican btw) But I do know that just because you are enlightened, doesn't mean you are perfect and are always right.

I'm not trying to turn this into a political debate, so please don't ban me right off the bat.

The videos say that there is no better alternative to world peace because America is the only one morally viable to do it. The alternatives? The UN is inefficient. Russia & China? I can't imagine them leading the world when their governments are so much more corrupt than America's and they have no qualms oppressing their people. They haven't even apologized for their massacre of communism, unlike how Germany apologizes for Hitler & Nazism.

I feel as though America has given me a blessing I could never repay. And joining the military isn't the best way to show gratitude (I know...) (and what foreign power is America under threat from today that urgently demands us to lay down our lives ._.)

Am I just furthering evil by joining the military? I mean, how can you call the soldier evil when you pay for him? 

What am I missing?

TL;DR I want to join the US Army to die for America for all that it has given me, but after seeing Leo's video on the mechanics of evil, I am having second thoughts.

 

 

 

[Emerald]

Contemplate on these things...

What is America actually? And what is a country in general?

What does moral superiority entail? Who gets to decide?

How do you know that America is a morally superior country to the other countries?

What is the objective of war?

How is the winner of a war determined?

Who determines who wins the war?

What is the relationship between death and winning a war?

Is a war a competition? If so, how can we tell who loses and wins? If no, how can we tell who loses and wins?

What are enemies? What makes them the bad guys?

How do you think the enemy lives their daily life?

How do you think they experience being a soldier? 

What does a countries border consist of? Who decides?

 

[RichardY]

No.

[outlandish]

No

[GenuinePerspectiveXC]

Living in an authoritarian society is really tough, even moreso depending on the branch. It can be okay in the Air Force and horrible in the Marines, depending a bit on your unit.  You do not want to be a critical thinker on moral issues in that environment.  Nobody likes a critical thinker in an authoritarian society.

That being said, as the wars continue, the leadership style becomes less and less authoritarian and more competency-based.  I've been out for 8 years now.  And honestly, you gain a really interesting perspective, but the suffering and time-wasting over 4 years is not really worth it...unless the other option is to stay at 7-11 and drink slurpees for the rest of your life.

Ethically, you're going to be with some very low conscious people, doing low-conscious shit to other low-conscious people.

Edited November 8, 2018 by GenuinePerspectiveXC

[Equanimitize]

3 hours ago, GenuinePerspectiveXC said:

Living in an authoritarian society is really tough, even moreso depending on the branch. It can be okay in the Air Force and horrible in the Marines, depending a bit on your unit.  You do not want to be a critical thinker on moral issues in that environment.  Nobody likes a critical thinker in an authoritarian society.

 

This and the fact that you are contemplating whether or not to join the Military, and that you watch Actualized videos is probably a good sign that the Military is not a good fit. 

 

3 hours ago, GenuinePerspectiveXC said:

you're going to be with some very low conscious people, doing low-conscious shit to other low-conscious people.

There's a lot of this for sure

I'd also say that for someone who is at Stage Red or someone who is Solid Blue the Military may actually be a solid option, it gives someone an infrastructure and values such as rules, regulations, discipline, camaraderie, honor, commitment, and courage to name a few-something they probably didn't have at their previous level of development. Do you need the Military to pass through Blue or to evolve as a human being? Absolutely not, but I think many people on this forum are looking at it from a stage Green perspective, not really understanding the purpose or the view of that individual that one is seeing it from. 

I think the Military in a lot of ways, is a mechanism for someone to embark on their Hero's journey albeit in a low consciousness way-but try telling some gang banger who lives in L.A. to go meditate, do kriya yoga, and read about Abraham Maslow-not that easy. The Military is simply a channel for boys to enter "manhood" and to embark on their journey-as a society I understand the purpose for the Military hopefully one day we can transcend this-as the level of consciousness of our society increases the need for the Military decreases.  

 

[saffron]

@Emerald America isn't superior. At least I don't believe that. PragerU is the one saying that, and I don't agree with everything they have to say. To me, it's just that people flock to America for a better life, and America has stood as a hope against communism and nazism. 

[Emerald]

On 11/8/2018 at 8:17 PM, saffron said:

@Emerald America isn't superior. At least I don't believe that. PragerU is the one saying that, and I don't agree with everything they have to say. To me, it's just that people flock to America for a better life, and America has stood as a hope against communism and nazism. 

Do the contemplations regardless.

[saffron]

@Emerald I have ultimately decided against it.

[saffron]

@Emerald @GenuinePerspectiveXC would it be okay if did something that wasn't involved in combat like reservists

or does everything lead to devilry?

Edited November 20, 2018 by saffron

[Emerald]

20 hours ago, saffron said:

@Emerald @GenuinePerspectiveXC would it be okay if did something that wasn't involved in combat like reservists

or does everything lead to devilry?

The way I see it is this. The military will always exist as long as human society exists, as it is a natural form within our societies. It is necessary for protection and defense, as there will always be a chance of one country attacking another. So, there needs to be that line of defense there.

That said, the military will take more denigrated or exalted forms (as every profession does) depending on the level of consciousness a society has. The same is true for law enforcement, teaching, religious figures, etc. 

So, if you get into the military for a real and tangible reason that you can see provides clear value to society, I don't see an issue with it. So, if you are in the reserves, this means that you are in your home country and ready to protect if another country attacks. So, this has clear value to your society as it saves lives,  and it doesn't involve attacking another country and creating a bad situation for others. It's merely for protection, which is the highest tangible value that the military can realize. 

However, the current state of affairs with the military is heavily influenced by tribalism, ethnocentricity, greed, cleaving to imaginary symbols, and meaningless conflict that has no value to society. So, offensive wars are very low consciousness unless they are done to protect vulnerable countries or ourselves from tyrants and their regimes. 

Now, you have to be careful in the military, even if you're just in the reserves because they do tend to enforce a lot of rigid Blue values based in imaginary ideas and symbolism. This is something that a person who's trying to actualize themselves should be looking to transcend to get detached from illusions and more grounded in truth.

But if you can remain conscious that the highest purpose of the military is for protection and protection only, then being in the reserves should be okay. And realize also, that protection and offense are two totally different things. 

 

[saffron]

 Like Leo said, follow the bread crumb trail. Even if you're not in combat, you're still maintaining their infrastructure which they use to carry out their own agenda

[bejapuskas]

On 8. 11. 2018 at 7:59 PM, Emerald said:

Contemplate on these things...

What is America actually? And what is a country in general?

What does moral superiority entail? Who gets to decide?

How do you know that America is a morally superior country to the other countries?

What is the objective of war?

How is the winner of a war determined?

Who determines who wins the war?

What is the relationship between death and winning a war?

Is a war a competition? If so, how can we tell who loses and wins? If no, how can we tell who loses and wins?

What are enemies? What makes them the bad guys?

How do you think the enemy lives their daily life?

How do you think they experience being a soldier? 

What does a countries border consist of? Who decides?

 

@saffron  This is great. Think about it. You can definitely be grateful, without fighting. You can contribute without winning. If we rather focus on increasing the global awareness of mankind, war will disappear, unless it destroys us before that happens... War probably was necessary in the past, you cannot just surrender to Hitler and hope for the best... But I honestly think that conflict wont be necessary, as we evolve - but its not guaranteed that it will be in our lifetimes, as the world leaders are stage red partially...

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, saffron said:

 Like Leo said, follow the bread crumb trail. Even if you're not in combat, you're still maintaining their infrastructure which they use to carry out their own agenda

This is definitely a danger. So, if you think you'll fall into the traps of believing illusions and being taken in by the symbolism and the current aegis of the institution, then I recommend even avoiding the reserves. That said, the reserves do provide a practical service around protection that makes sense. 

[saffron]

@Emerald You ever hear the saying "Be the change you wish to see" Do you think it could apply here?

[bejapuskas]

@saffron Definitely  

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, saffron said:

@Emerald You ever hear the saying "Be the change you wish to see" Do you think it could apply here?

I suppose it could. But only if you feel like you're fairly immune to peer pressure and feel comfortable with pushing back on the status quo of the institution as a whole over a sustained period of time. All the while, remaining and appealing person for other people to aspire to. 

So, if you think you can do this, you can effect things in small positive ways from within that system of being in the reserves. 

[saffron]

For the longest time I let my self believe fighting for America was about fighting for American values such as freedom and everything that it made it so prosperous. But it isn't. We're not fighting for something anymore. There isn't anything Like Hitler or the Soviets anymore. Why does America have 800 Military bases around the world? America is just another ego in a power struggle. You all are right. The military is not a place for self actualized people. Like Leo said, 

Quote

Nobody self actualizes because it is uncomfortable to do

Thank you all for your insights. Paradigm shifts are the hardest things to take on in life. 

[Pharion]

@saffron No man. Use those tools that you were given by being in america to self actualize, and help the world in a way that is authentic to you. Joining the military is going to force you to conform, and either have a stage blue mentality or suppress your real thoughts. You have so many unique skills, and so much potential to offer the world and to enjoy life and awaken yourself, dont squander that in a noble but misguided quest. I respect that very much, but it really is misguided and i dont say than in a way to belittle you, or make you feel silly or anything. Ask yourself, can you self actualize by joining the military? is joining the military condusive to enlightenment and spiritual growth, is it the best thing you can do with your unique talents and perspective with the time you have on this earth? I think you will find the answers to be no (hey maybe im wrong) but seriously ask yourself those questions. TLDR: please no!

[saffron]

@Pharion  I already have. I have introspected with the questions @Emerald gave me. What am I hoping to accomplish being a soldier? A sense of valor? Defending my country? Why are America's enemies their enemies? What are we fighting for? It all leads back to the sense of self/ego. Like Leo said in his Mechanics of Evil video, minuscule amount of people think about the suffering of Iraqis. I'm not even Iraqi, I'm Pakistani. But their suffering hits close to home for me since I was a kid. After being enlightened about how evil is created, I can't in good conscious join the military and I am awakened to how deeply unconscious the military is and those who glorify them.