Osho - Unknowable Intrinsic Reality

[mochafrap]

https://o-meditation.com/2012/05/18/for-ayn-rand-there-was-no-mystery-osho/

Came across a tidbit of Osho's views on rationality. Part of it happens to include his saying that "you are more than you can ever know, because your intrinsic reality remains mysterious, always remains unknown, unknowable." Just wondering if anyone has thoughts on this - is our intrinsic reality, and similarly / kinda the same our true nature, knowable? How would one know once one claims to know?

Please correct me if this is not actually from Osho, but I did try and fact-check that it is.

Edited November 8, 2018 by mochafrap

[Leo Gura]

That is the core lesson of mysticism: reality is irreducibly mystical.

You cannot know the Absolute because knowledge is a 2nd order process. Being is prior to knowing. You can BE the Absolute rather than knowing it. Or you can know that it is unknowable. Which is what Osho is describing.

Nonduality means that knowing must collapse into being. Which is why the ultimate Truth cannot be spoke, thought, or symbolized. All symbols are too indirect. You must directly become the being of which all symbols are made. Language and thought must be entirely transcended. The Truth is beyond thought, imagination, or even your mind.

Ayn Rand was of course an arrogant, egoistical, dualistic, stage Orange fool. The hallmark of the ego-mind is that it thinks it can know everything through linear reason. And in this it is deluded beyond hope.

[mochafrap]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You cannot know the Absolute because knowledge is a 2nd order process. Being is prior to knowing. You can BE the Absolute rather than knowing it. Or you can know that it is unknowable

Ah, I think I'm on this same page. Just confused as to why anyone claims to know anything, then, even with respect to enlightenment?

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Ayn Rand was of course an arrogant, egoistical, dualistic, stage Orange fool. The hallmark of the ego-mind is that it thinks it can know everything through linear reason. And in this it is deluded beyond hope.

Just a note: She does seem largely dualistic and parts of Atlas Shrugged make it clear she didn't really understand philosophies like Advaita Vedanta and erroneously assumed that they are 100% illogical and baseless. You may have read some of her nonfiction - so have I. However, I am not as quick to completely debase her, especially in terms of how to create an economy and behaivoral expectations of individuals (or distinct experiences of the one Self, in terms of nonduality). Basically, her systems thinking is interesting to me. I should note that I am not supporting the unhinged capitalism so many people (incorrectly) think Rand raves about. It would be interesting to talk to you and others who so strongly rebuke her about the actual plots of her novels and their implications, bad and good.

Also, Rand died of heart failure. Not suicide. So.... weird that Osho claimed suicide.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, mochafrap said:

Just confused as to why anyone claims to know anything, then, even with respect to enlightenment?

As Socrates famously said, "I know that I know nothing."

That's enlightenment in a nutshell.

But it's still not what you imagine it to be. By knowing nothing you know everything. Things go full-circle in an unexpected way.

You should also distinguish carefully between absolute vs relative knowing. We are talking about knowledge of the Absolute Truth in this context. Relative knowledge abounds, but it is relative.

Absolute knowledge isn't really knowledge, it's Being. But we colloquially call it "knowledge" because most people do not understand a word like "being".

[Annoynymous]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As Socrates famously said, "I know that I know nothing."

That's enlightenment in a nutshell.

But it's still not what you imagine it to be. By knowing nothing you know everything. Things go full-circle in an unexpected way.

You should also distinguish carefully between absolute vs relative knowing. We are talking about knowledge of the Absolute Truth in this context. Relative knowledge abounds, but it is relative.

Absolute knowledge isn't really knowledge, it's Being. But we colloquially call it "knowledge" because most people do not understand a word like "being".

@Leo Gura It is high time that you make an episode about relativsim.

Now a days when you talk about relativism, i become confused like hell!