Science ?

[Charlotte]

I used to love science. Simply because it unraveled the mechanism of 'things' and I loved learning how everything worked. I found that 'things' are self sustaining and intelligent and it blew my mind. The sheer intelligence of everything seriously intrigued me. 

Since discovering non-dualism and contemplating science I started to see through the illusion of science and I lost interest a little. 

But lately I've been thinking about it a lot as I cannot get over how intelligent everything is and I have a strong sense to want learn more. 

If I study science (as a hobby) consciously surely I won't fall into trap's?

[Rilles]

Study it! Be on the cusp and cutting edge as a ”non-dual” scientist! ??

Just remember that science studies the content and non duality studies the substance of reality. 

[Forestluv]

@Charlotte It sounds like your transcendence of science is maturing. During my maturation, my interest in science declined. I no longer "believed" it like I used to. As my post-science consciousness stabilized, I began seeing science as a wonderful tool that is integrated with art, philosophy, history, poetry etc. Science became part of a holistic view. I started getting curious again - yet this is a more mature curiosity.

Once a person transcends rational thought and science, I can't imagine how one can return. It's like spending your whole life immersed in a town. Then, one day you climb to a mountain top and see the city from a very different perspective. It is a meta view. You see how your town is interconnected to the environment and other towns. You can return to your town, yet you can't unsee what you saw. It will always be part of your more holistic view.

[moon777light]

the best scientists are the ones who see through the illusion

[non_nothing]

I claim that you have no idea about why 1 + 1 = 2 and I further claim that nobody in this forum have even no idea why we count things, and even the silliest multiplication why 3 x 2 = 2 x 3 or = 2 + 2 + 2 in fact I'd prove to you they're all different things, you have no definition or foundations upon anything "scientific" but you soaked everything without questioning, that's why that duality thing hits you hard right now, very hard. I strongly encourage you to question your foundations, make experiments on your own, (you can start with classic physics at home to construct easy experiments) I'd like to offer you help and contemplation questions if you'd like from the work I did.

Edited November 7, 2018 by non_nothing

[Charlotte]

4 minutes ago, non_nothing said:

I claim that you have no idea about why 1 + 1 = 2

@non_nothing Your absolutely right, I don't! I said this to my math teacher and she looked baffled ?

I asked her as she ACTUALLY ever seen a 'number' and she didn't reply ?

Yeah man hit me up with them, I'm open to whatever. Thank you so much

@Rilles ?? 

I know I know ? ?

@Serotoninluv So you yourself have been through this same type of journey with science? Wow I'm intrigued!

Yes! I also stopped "believing" in it. Same happened with religion but now I can also see beyond what man has created from religion. I'm able to take the important insights from any religion.

You described it in such a beautiful way. 

 @omTom  That is exactly what I mean by 'traps'. I'm able to look beyond what you describe. Thanks for reiterating

@moon777light  ♥️

@non_nothing

[Hellspeed]

Science is very good to build a house per example, but when it comes to really measure reality and how it works simply the level of science into this matter is kindergarten. 

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

 

@Serotoninluv So you yourself have been through this same type of journey with science? Wow I'm intrigued!

Yes! I also stopped "believing" in it. Same happened with religion but now I can also see beyond what man has created from religion. I'm able to take the important insights from any religion.

You described it in such a beautiful way. 

 

Yes, I was trained as a scientist and I still teach science courses. The process of transcending science was quite bumpy at times - yet totally worth it. The holistic view is so beautiful.

I like your analogy to waking up to religion. It was a similar process for me as well.

[Charlotte]

@Serotoninluv Gosh I bet that was an extremely bumpy ride indeed! 

Was it? How interesting

I seemed to of gone through all this relatively quickly (within the space of 1 year for both topics)

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

@Serotoninluv Gosh I bet that was an extremely bumpy ride indeed! 

Was it? How interesting

I seemed to of gone through all this relatively quickly (within the space of 1 year for both topics)

Similar for me. The rough part was 1-2 years. Then a maturation.

It's kind of like taking a space ship into outer space. Lifting off against gravity is a rough ride. There is lots of uncertainty and it's uncomfortable. Yet, once we breakthrough the atmosphere and enter space . . . it's magnificent. We look back and see the earth floating in space and realize we too are now floating in space - free of the limitations imposed by gravity. We are free to be curious and explore. . . 

[electroBeam]

@Charlotte I use to like science in HS, but then I started hating it because of how wrong it really was (after contemplation) but now im starting to like it again. 

Why? Because I about a year or 2 ago I was a black and white thinker. 

If science was slightly wrong about something, I would palm it off as completely incorrect and stupid. 

Now I'm starting to realize this is a silly way to go about things. Yes a scientific model might be 90% wrong, full of lies, dogmas and self prejudice, but there is usually a 10% of the model that actually is enlightening and correct, and quite insightful. While what science is saying in an absolute, concrete sense is wrong, its relationships, patterns and connections with other subject usually can give you some valuable insight, if looked at it sceptically and holistically.

Take for example Netwton's laws of mechancis. Of course these laws are technically wrong in an absolute sense, yet there does seem to be a relationship between objects falling to the ground. Is this relationship a constructed illusion? Could be, but even if it is an illusion, it gives you an insight into how the mind creates illusions, and also gives you insight into the cultural paradigms and ways of thinking in either Newton's head or the culture Newton was brought up in.

F=ma starts to break down at a molecular level, but its not completely incorrect. There is still that 10% of it which is true, the other 90% is covered by quantum mechanics. 

[Ire]

Hey! @Charlotte Science is amazing! I am Finishing my phd in molecular biology . However I felt disappointed about how is the reaserch  nowadays in the sense that is becoming like industry everything has to fit with what other groups have been discovered and The scientist are under pressure to publish to gain money to keep researching and this sometimes made some findings not so truthful . I was more in the romantic way of doing science just observe and describe but is not enough. The topic should be something like studying a disease or special topics to apply for money otherwise for basic fundamental research is very difficult to get funding. Also is a full time job you don't stop thinking is not like working in an office. You really really need to be passionate about and follow the game behind political university interest. 

 

[Solace]

4 hours ago, Shiva said:

Science is great! Non-duality won't take you to the moon, science will!

We are pure consciousness. We can project ourselves on the moon, and even embody the consciousness of the moon when we are masters of the material world  

This is thousands of years away I would guess for everyone to do. At that time the greatest technological feats will no longer be outside of us, but the full embodiment of our higher selves within, of our full creative power that is right here and right now for the taking!

I still love science. Of all the subjects, it intrigued me the most because it reminded me of my infinite nature, as well as satisfying my burning desire at the time to learn about  new, unknown, and paradigm-shifting phenomena. Then I started wondering, why I am here in this universe? The chances seem so small for me to exist? Who is the one who exists? Is this even real? Is there a God? How did something come out of nothing? What was there before the Big Bang? How do I fit into all of this? How am I conscious of myself when my brain is like all of reality, made of subatomic particles? How can nature be so intelligent, there must be something guiding it, it just can’t be possible for atoms to do all of this!

That’s why I came here. I knew science couldn’t provide these types of answers or ever will. Yet this dosen’t mean the relative dosen’t matter, because anything we do in this world is relative, and is subject to change in every moment. So do what you want, but most importantly realize the Unconditonal Love first and foremost, and all else will be revealed and given. For most of the time we don’t know what we want until we reconnect with our hearts after all.

Love the answers here guys. There is value in everything. Growing some flowers, taking a breathe, or doing science, or doing nothing.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Solace

[Preetom]

On 11/8/2018 at 1:44 AM, Charlotte said:

If I study science (as a hobby) consciously surely I won't fall into trap's?

You can avoid traps if you don't have the wrong expectations from the wrong things.

A screwdriver is a great tool. It has it's functions. But the delusion and problems start if you expect that this screwdriver will cook breakfast for you every morning as well! 

Science is founded upon a groundless assumption that there is an absolute, objective world out there made of matter. A system that is founded upon assumption can never reach Truth. Our waking state is a persistent dream. That's why science is necessary to study and predict the persistent patterns of this dream. In a constantly whacky dream, there is no science. That inconsistency itself becomes the norm.

Reminds me of an analogy I heard from Peter Ralston. Absolute Reality/Consciousness is like a ghost that won't show itself directly. But you can intuit the presence of this ghost by the activities it induces i.e. making a mark on wall, dropping something hung on the wall, dropping something from the table etc. Now lets say you really wanna know more about this ghost but you're spending all your time studying and cracking these whacky events. Would you know something Truthful about the ghost? No! You'll only keep getting better and better at interpreting the 'activities' of this ghost.

You can compare this analogy with what's going on in brain science in the name of Consciousness studies. They aren't really studying Consciousness. They are studying brain waves but conflating it as the study of Consciousness.

Also about this notion of an external world made of 'matter', it's like having an attitude like this, ''We haven't yet found the boogyman. But we strongly believe and intuit there is a boogyman. We just need few more decades and finer instruments to look and then boogyman will be found guaranteed! But in the meantime, let's study the activity, life cycle, mating habits etc of boogyman! Don't worry!! Boogyman will be found! No need to question the existence of boogyman, let's just study it's activities as if it really exists!''  

With that being said, science is great and interesting. I feel that studying science has great potential to stabilize the mind and also appreciate this dream in a newfound way compared to chasing other things.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Preetom

[Outer]

What's the illusion of science?

[Michael569]

On 07/11/2018 at 7:44 PM, Charlotte said:

But lately I've been thinking about it a lot as I cannot get over how intelligent everything is and I have a strong sense to want learn more. 

Because you've come around, full circle in a spiral and moved from having science on a pedestal to observing science with curiosity but keeping an eye on the bigger picture at the same time. 

Science has so much to offer regardless of how deep you want to go, someone has already done the hard work of discovering that shit for you. I find it absolutely fascinating to observe nutritional and health science but have to keep reminding myself that it is just one piece of the giant puzzle  

So be curious but be extremely selective and critical in what you apply. 

[Shin]

I was also curious about a lot of topics 2 years ago, but I totally drop any interest to understand anything.

Will it ever come back ? ?

[Outer]

6 minutes ago, Shin said:

I was also curious about a lot of topics 2 years ago, but I totally drop any interest to understand anything.

Will it ever come back ? ?

Hahahahaha your picture.

[Shin]

17 minutes ago, Shin said:

I was also curious about a lot of topics 2 years ago, but I totally drop any interest to understand anything.

Will it ever come back ? ?

Like even reading science fiction novels, like Star Wars books.

I don't know, nothing seems interesting ?

[Rilles]

2 minutes ago, Shin said:

Like even reading science fiction novels, like Star Wars books.

I don't know, nothing seems interesting ?

Too much meditation has made you stoney you dopehead! Get back into the world a bit!