Drug use & spiritulity

[ZZZZ]

Maybe this has been addressed in the past, but I have been wondering where this distinction was made...

 

Leo obviously promotes the use of psychadelics for spiritual work (for good reason), and has recently promoted the use of nootropics such as modafinil etc. However, he has suggested that one must rid themselves of smoking weed and other similar habits/substances in order to progress with spirituality practices.

 

Intuitively I understand the low-consciousness activities that stem from chronic marijuana use, but where is this distinction really made in terms of which substances are meant to be used, and for what purposes, etc? Even caffeine use is altering our state of consciousness, and I believe Leo even condoned this at one point in regards to meditation (I could be wrong). Yet he claims modafinil and armodafinil can aid in this sort of spiritual work?

 

I guess I just have some hazy recolection of his various recommendations, and I wanted to see what everyones thought were as I adjust my habits moving forward in terms of substance use. 

[Forestluv]

@ZZZZ I'd say it's relative to the individual - yet some generalizations can be made. 

We can say that a chainsaw is more powerful than a handsaw. In the hands of a novice, a chainsaw can cause more harm to the user than a handsaw. Similarly, psychedelics are more powerful than weed - yet in the hands of a novice, psychedelics can cause harm to the user.

Asking what each substance is "meant" for is about as subjective as you can get. It's relative to the user. Humans are constantly trying to alter our physiology and mind state: shopping, eating, running, watching movies, having sex, reading, walks in nature, yoga, psychedelics, alcohol, meditation etc. What are each of these "meant" for? Entertainment? Escape? Spirituality? Personal improvement?  It depends on the user.

Trying new things and direct experience is key. Try it out a few times. Does it work for you? Do you need to fine tune it? What are your intentions and motivations? Does it help you progress? Are you becoming dependent? Etc.

When deciding which to try, I would consider both personal patterns and public information. A person with a past history of drug dependence may decide to try psychedelics (low dependency risk / high spiritual reward) over weed (high dependency risk / low spiritual reward). Do research.

[ZZZZ]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@ZZZZ I'd say it's relative to the individual - yet some generalizations can be made. 

We can say that a chainsaw is more powerful than a handsaw. In the hands of a novice, a chainsaw can cause more harm to the user than a handsaw. Similarly, psychedelics are more powerful than weed - yet in the hands of a novice, psychedelics can cause harm to the user.

Asking what each substance is "meant" for is about as subjective as you can get. It's relative to the user. Humans are constantly trying to alter our physiology and mind state: shopping, eating, running, watching movies, having sex, reading, walks in nature, yoga, psychedelics, alcohol, meditation etc. What are each of these "meant" for? Entertainment? Escape? Spirituality? Personal improvement?  It depends on the user.

Trying new things and direct experience is key. Try it out a few times. Does it work for you? Do you need to fine tune it? What are your intentions and motivations? Does it help you progress? Are you becoming dependent? Etc.

When deciding which to try, I would consider both personal patterns and public information. A person with a past history of drug dependence may decide to try psychedelics (low dependency risk / high spiritual reward) over weed (high dependency risk / low spiritual reward). Do research.

I guess that's not really what I was trying to get at with this post. I remember Leo saying one should cut out weed like they should with video games, TV, etc. and even recall him saying something similar about caffeine/coffee. I am just wondering where exactly he is making that distinction with certain substances while promoting others. It just seemed like there was some inconsistency in what I've heard him suggesting, but I'm probably just missing his underlying reasoning.

[Shadowraix]

4 minutes ago, ZZZZ said:

I guess that's not really what I was trying to get at with this post. I remember Leo saying one should cut out weed like they should with video games, TV, etc. and even recall him saying something similar about caffeine/coffee. I am just wondering where exactly he is making that distinction with certain substances while promoting others. It just seemed like there was some inconsistency in what I've heard him suggesting, but I'm probably just missing his underlying reasoning.

Leo suggests what he has verified through his direct experience.

His experience was probably that weed can make spiritual work harder.

I would hope Leo would not recommend a drug he has not personally experienced.

[outlandish]

18 hours ago, ZZZZ said:

I guess that's not really what I was trying to get at with this post. I remember Leo saying one should cut out weed like they should with video games, TV, etc. and even recall him saying something similar about caffeine/coffee. I am just wondering where exactly he is making that distinction with certain substances while promoting others. It just seemed like there was some inconsistency in what I've heard him suggesting, but I'm probably just missing his underlying reasoning.

He is make the distinction between the psychedelic class of "substances" and other mind altering "substances". If you're not clear on what defines a classic psychedelic, it's the class of drugs that act as serotonin receptor agonists. This group includes LSD, magic mushrooms, 5-MeO-DMT, mescaline, 2C-B, DMT, ayahuasca to name a few of the most well known.

It's similar to how you could encourage someone to eat less hamburger in their diet, but eat more broccoli. They are both food, but very different kinds of food.

[Leo Gura]

The distinction is very simple:

Addictive, yes or no?

If yes, do not use.

I do not condone caffeine for this reason. I would never recommend an addictive or harmful substance like ketamine, antidepressants, or opioids.

[archi]

No weed! - Mental addiction.

[ZZZZ]

On 11/9/2018 at 1:56 AM, Leo Gura said:

The distinction is very simple:

Addictive, yes or no?

If yes, do not use.

I do not condone caffeine for this reason. I would never recommend an addictive or harmful substance like ketamine, antidepressants, or opioids.

Got it, thanks for the clarification!