Why do you take psychedelics?

[electroBeam]

Firstly, I will just brielfy summarize my opinions about the use of psychedelics, and then further clarify my question based on my beliefs.

 

Some personal observations I have noticed with people who DO take psychedelics are that:
- people who have never heard of spirituality before, tend to at least develop a tiny bit of motivation to meditate after having the experience. They also get shocked, provoked, and tend to misrepresent their experiences massively (which is of course expected). Yet they mostly remain completely clueless and fail to develop a regular meditation habit for at least the next 5 yrs if not for their entire lifespan.

- people who do regularly meditate, and are on 'the path' and take psychedelics, tend to have quite amazing experiences during the trip, and they develop very interesting and alternative memories about reality, yet they usually completely fail to integrate the experience to levels necessary to really take full opportunity of the experience. Also psychedelics usually do not, in my experience, supercharge somebody's meditation experience if they have been regularly meditating. If they are a 'noob' and meditate once a week, then psychedelics supercharge their experience massively. But if they already meditate for at least 30 minutes to 1 hour a day, their meditation practice usually doesn't get supercharged, and apart from the cool memories, the person's spiritual growth remains unaltered.

From these opinions/observations, I pose 3 questions:

- Are my observations correct? If not what am I observing incorrectly?

- If psychedelics do not have much of an effect of changing your brain's synaptic connections that much, then what is the point of taking psychedelics? Why are they useful?

- Is there a meditation type system out that which very wisely and methodologically uses psychedelics to supercharge a person's spiritual growth? And if so would you kindly point me in the right direction (NOTE: I have looked at various south american shamanic practices, yet the ones I have seen do not particularly enhance your spiritual growth, but rather your ability to heal through non ordinary reality. There is a subtle difference to what I am looking for, I am looking for Atman/Brahman not non ordinary states of reality). 

 

Thanks!

[Salvijus]

- Are my observations correct? If not what am I observing incorrectly?

I know that those people who do psychedelics can open some doors in the mind. For example, if you have experience with psychedelics and you do kriya you reach those same effects you had on psychedelics. I tried AL-LAD a few times and I was able to see blue color everywhere on walls and celling. Now when I do sadhguru's Yoga I can the see the same blue light everyday.

So it opens some kind of abilities in a sense.

Is it useful? Not at all. Your anxiety, your happiness, your success in life, your relationships will not be any better because you can see blue lights.

In terms of life quality I see psychedelics to be highly destructive. Both your mental capabilities go down. And your whole energy systems goes through a lot of damage but people usually have no awareness of these things. I only became sensitive to that when I started doing Yoga. And I know the difference between a strong balanced energy system, a body that is buzzing with life inside and wacky, inactive, unvibrant, imbalanced energy body that most of the population have today unknowingly. 

To know what psychedelics are really doing to you takes extrodinary levels of awareness. Someone who knows human system inside out, from it's origin to it's ultimate, every inch of it. There aren't many beings of such capabilities on the planet. Sadhguru says when you take psychedelics you forcefully crack up your mind and open something up but at a very high cost by destroing your potential somewhere permenantly.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Salvijus

[Rilles]

I’ll probably take psychedelics someday but in all honesty everything youre looking for is already here, psychedelics bring alot of unecessary fluff, or terror for people who arent ready for it. 5-MEO seems to be the best if you just want raw truth. 

[wavydude]

@Salvijus What kind of yoga you do ? Were you initiated or learned online ? How long before you noticed effects ?

 

As for psychedelics I must agree. They are a drug and esencially do what every other drug on earth do. Like cocaine gives you short boost of energy that comes at cost, psychedelics give you boost of awarness which I imagine also comes at some cost.

[Strikr]

non sense, you can even awaken without "real meditation", Not that I believe it, I experienced it.

I did psychedelic with intent, no regret, without it, I would probably never be where am I now.

people who fear psychedelic, good luck meditating for 10 years

the only path is wanting truth at all cost.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Strikr

[electroBeam]

@Salvijus yeah, I can see that psychedelics obviously bring awakening experiences, but is it a wise, grounded way to do it? My gut is saying no. Small incremental steps + order seems to be a wiser choice than sporatic, chaotic leaps. 

@Strikr How did you integrate the experience to make the awakening permanent? How do you practice psychedelics? Do you meditate?

[Salvijus]

People who take psychedelics and then say I feel fine are full of bull. If you ask people who eat junk food everyday how they feel, they also say fine. Even smokers and alchohol drinkers always say I feel fine, it gives me peace, helps from depression It's becouse they don't have any awareness at all of what is really happening to them.

7 hours ago, electroBeam said:

@Salvijus yeah, I can see that psychedelics obviously bring awakening experiences, but is it a wise, grounded way to do it? My gut is saying no. Small incremental steps + order seems to be a wiser choice than sporatic, chaotic leaps. 

Idk, everyone has different opinions here. I don't trust my own opinion. I know I'm very stupid as hell. So I follow what great sages and seers are saying. They say don't don't use it. That's what I do It's not that I can't think for myself, it's just that he proved himself to me so many times that now I hold sadhguru's voice higher then my own. 

 

7 hours ago, wavydude said:

@Salvijus What kind of yoga you do ? Were you initiated or learned online ? How long before you noticed effects ?

 

In that specific example I was talking about yogasanas from sadhguru. 

Yes, all sadhguru's programs are with some kind of transmission. I don't know exacly what is happening in the programs but sadhguru said all the programs are not just a bundle of instructions. Something more is happening. That's why he only teach Yoga in person. And after experiencing the program I'd never even dare to look at someone who's doing book yoga

You can feel the effects on the first day. Just after you're done you can feel that you feel more a little bit more balanced and elevated and all those things. But as you do it longer it gets more and more. Then after about 6months you look back and you see that you're not the person anymore

Edited November 7, 2018 by Salvijus

[Strikr]

3 hours ago, electroBeam said:

@Salvijus yeah, I can see that psychedelics obviously bring awakening experiences, but is it a wise, grounded way to do it? My gut is saying no. Small incremental steps + order seems to be a wiser choice than sporatic, chaotic leaps. 

@Strikr How did you integrate the experience to make the awakening permanent? How do you practice psychedelics? Do you meditate?

I only did 2 months ago, 2 weeks and 3 real trip and like ~ 8 days microdose ( LSD / mushroom )

 ( I microdosed for those weeks aswell, to "stay in" the idea ) maybe it helped, maybe it turned me with the worst month after haha, "dark soul"

just use them as "I feel it" and I took many years before "deciding" it was ok.

I try mushroom prior to this 1 year ago for 2 days in a row 

psychedelic show you how YOUR mind is working, it show you a state close from your dream, it show your subconscious to the conscious.

any question you try on psychedelic will turn VERY different than your usual questionning.

I don't believe that psychedelic really "drug you" they have nothing to do with "happy drug such as mdma, cokaïne and all stimulant" they do not makes you happy, they makes you feel "hell & paradise", yep you'll feel fucking good, but if you change of thought, you'll create "hell" aswell. ( only mental though )

show the "working" of the mind and how thought impact your move/perception.

they just remove all your current processus, the "drug mental belief defaut mode"

I don't feel a need for doing it, I feel just meditate, sport, yoga, washing my mind/body and living in balance can makes me as now/good as on psychedelic.

had others mental realization that still change my life, for the good. 

But if your mind is a computer, be sure to be a good hacker. Because psychedelic is "hacking". Sometimes it work, for some, it's too much. It's like living a powerful experience, especially if you never used psychedelics at all. It's "normal" to turn "crazy" after those insight.

just do it once, and get the call right, then, you'll see the path more clearly. ( even steve jobs & bill gates used LSD for instance, this helped me think twice, when I was very "orange" )

Edited November 7, 2018 by Strikr

[peanutspathtotruth]

@electroBeam I can only talk from limited awareness and limited experience, but since this is all anybody of us really has to speak from, here is my take on it. Please be aware of people who say they believe someone else's voice more than their own (and more importantly, than their own experience)

1. Notice that your "observations" of other people as you describe them seem to include some projection. I mean how do you know if they integrate an experience? You claim they completely fail to do so. How do you know? How do you know the integration process doesn't take months or even years after the trip? And who says integration is visible for you? Moreover, where do you get your observations from? How many, how detailed, how scientifically are you really observing?

2. Same thing for the second question. Why do you assume that psychedelics are NOT changing your brain's synaptic connections? I'm not an expert, but I also heard a lot of recent studies seem to prove it otherwise. But what do I know. Just pointing out that it's easy to assume this stuff.

Ultimately what I'm getting at is this: Only trust your own experience. At my current "stage" I would tend to agree with @Strikr about this line: 

3 hours ago, Strikr said:

the only path is wanting truth [at] all cost.

 

This means that every desire or fear or rejection of anything in your current experience is leading you away from truth. It's about loving and wanting to understand truth, not about wanting to be happy or not wanting to suffer anymore. 

So in the end, I personally don't think psychedelics are necessary at all. Speaking from my own experience though I can imagine myself not having the understanding I have now without these experiences. Especially DMT showed me that all the concepts I had of enlightenment before, even with plenty of meditation over the years, had NOTHING (!!!!) to do with the actual thing. It's not about boosting your meditation, it's not about improving anything.

The real benefit I think is bringing about a situation in which you get the opportunity to see your own inner workings so crystal clear that there's no way to unsee it. It's not about interpreting those experiences. It's far beyond what your mind can comprehend. There are so many things to discover, and there are many paths. Sure, maybe I am not conscious enough to see those substances damaging my "energy system" or something else. I just know that what is, is, and that is okay. Only look at your own experience. Try them if you're curious, educate yourself about safe use. If not, then don't. It's very simple. Don't overthink it. Much love to you <3 

[PsiloPutty]

For new perspectives and to get closer to whatever it is that I am. To connect and commune.

[GabeN]

In this video Sadhguru says that people who smoke weed or take psychedelics hunt for "experience", but I don't know if I agree with that, of course there are a lot of people who do take it as recreational but there are also a lot of people who use it to have a look at the universe from a different perspective, I know how psychedelics can be helpful because it does really bring you new "possibilities" (or at least bring those possibilities faster), nature provided us with great medicines that cured hundreds of diseases, there is a good reason study closely how psychedelics can help us evolve to the next stage faster.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by GabeN

[peanutspathtotruth]

@GabeN Yes, there are just as well people who meditate to hunt experiences, maybe for their whole life. It doesn't matter what you do, this trap is ALWAYS functioning. So I personally don't think this argument is showing the real situation, it sounds very limited.

[Jack River]

To truly stop hunting for experience seems to be very difficult. The experiencer(self) depends on experience. Seeking a certain experience seems to simply maintain the illusion of self and keep us on the psychological time wagon. 

To hunt for experience is always moving away from what is. This is fear/desire/attachment/identification which are really psychological becoming.    To actually stop hunting for experience then the sense of the experiencer starts to fade away. I actually also noticed how this search for experience can corrupt any investigation into solving ang any problems, coming together with others, and in investigating what is truth. I think this psychological striving really has to be put away totally before having a actual relationship, being a problem solver, and especially when it comes to truth dudes. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jack River

[peanutspathtotruth]

@Jack River Exactly, even if this experience is one of higher consciousness. Even those can fuel the personality even further than before. Tricky tricky, but when seen it's quite simple. To come back to the topic here, I think that's what psychedelics can help you to see (but they don't necessarily will of course).

[Jack River]

12 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

@Jack River Exactly, even if this experience is one of higher consciousness. Even those can fuel the personality even further than before. Tricky tricky, but when seen it's quite simple. To come back to the topic here, I think that's what psychedelics can help you to see (but they don't necessarily will of course).

There is an insight that sees it all so clearly. When this insight acts what is seen is that the personality/self is its experience. As I have seen the psychedelic experience seems to temporarily collapse a space between subject/object. The problem seems to be that is it imposed chemically. So once it wears off we find ourselves again clinging to memory. Then this whole psychological pursuit seems to intensify. Plus in most cases I noticed that I would have some “emptying experience” but as soon as I came to “i” would project from my own content of thought what that experience was. You see the the root of this problem is in the minds tendency to register, recollect, record, and project. To end that we then can play in the mysterious kingdom of nothingness. For me this didn’t happen through any of the experiences I had, but first staring off with not moving away from what is. This means not moving away from fear/uncertainty. 

To stop pursuing experience we may find that experience comes to a stop. Then that is the mysterious. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Jack River

[peanutspathtotruth]

3 minutes ago, Jack River said:

To end that we then can play in the mysterious kingdom of nothingness. 

Well put  

[Strikr]

34 minutes ago, Jack River said:

To truly stop hunting for experience seems to be very difficult. The experiencer(self) depends on experience. Seeking a certain experience seems to simply maintain the illusion of self and keep us on the psychological time wagon. 

To hunt for experience is always moving away from what is. This is fear/desire/attachment/identification which are really psychological becoming.    To actually stop hunting for experience then the sense of the experiencer starts to fade away. I actually also noticed how this search for experience can corrupt any investigation into solving ang any problems, coming together with others, and in investigating what is truth. I think this psychological striving really has to be put away totally before having a actual relationship, being a problem solver, and especially when it comes to truth dudes. 

it's a good answer, but this relate more for people who already did psychedelics or intense meditation/breathing/inquiry

[Jack River]

Even better thing about this is this mysterious is ongoing/continuous, and thought/memory comes in to respond as function. But the mysterious is the ground and function comes in only when needed. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 minute ago, Strikr said:

it's a good answer, but this relate more for people who already did psychedelics or intense meditation/breathing/inquiry

True, but it may be helpful to start from the right place of understanding. It's one of the core things to see sooner or later anyway.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Strikr said:

it's a good answer, but this relate more for people who already did psychedelics or intense meditation/breathing/inquiry

I did psychedelics but I never deeply changed. If anything I became more neurotic. My “transformation” came recently without anything but self awareness/self seeing. Constant awareness of thought as a movement.