A "self-actualized" Society.

[Lorcan]

 

I will soon be writing a "Mega thread" on this topic, I have been reconstructing a new society from the ground up that is functional and MUCH better the barely functional, on the verge of collapse society we currently have throughout the world.

Before I post such a thread, I would appriciate if you would comment down below what you would like to see in an ideal, this includes education, wealth etc.

Anything really. So post your views down below, all replys will be read and appreciated, thank you.

[SkyPanther]

2 minutes ago, Lorcan said:

 

I will soon be writing a "Mega thread" on this topic, I have been reconstructing a new society from the ground up that is functional and MUCH better the barely functional, on the verge of collapse society we currently have throughout the world.

Before I post such a thread, I would appriciate if you would comment down below what you would like to see in an ideal, this includes education, wealth etc.

Anything really. So post your views down below, all replys will be read and appreciated, thank you.

The Island by Aldous Huxley covers an Ideal society from my point of view.  Add in virtual reality, space travel, and AI and that would be my personal ideal place to exist in. 

Of course others may want other things...to each their own.

 

[Leo Gura]

Reminds me of the Island of Doctor Moreau

The challenges of reforming society in the workable way are extremely complex and nuanced. I very rarely see people -- even very intelligent and enlightened people -- who have enough understanding of systems-thinking to know how to change society in a practical way.

If you're designing a stand-alone Utopia, that's not going to cut it. No one man can engineer something as complex as a society from the top down. You have to be much more clever and pragmatic about it. You have to understand how to work with egos on a mass-scale.

Understanding the shit out of spiral dynamics is a good place to start. Without that psychological foundation, you will create a total disaster, like most people before you.

[Henri]

http://www.iahv.org/us-en/wp-content/themes/IAHV/PDF/Universal-Declaration-of-Human-Values.pdf

[Key Elements]

@Leo Gura

Leo, I like what you said here. Paradigm shifts on a mass scale isn't easy at all. This reminds me of when I was watching your enlightenment clips, and on one of them you mentioned, "ox's tail," ever so briefly, and I had an "ah ha" moment to look it up and researched it. Then, I noticed a big "ah ha" moment when I found out about "riding the ox backwards" and how I was passing that off as a dream. The clips are so watered down to fit the mainstream. After a person makes paradigm shifts on any area in life, it's so hard to talk about it with anyone because the person is so misunderstood. I'm sure others in here are experiencing this in your forum.  It makes me think twice on how to do my startup.

Graves model was another "ah ha" moment for me.

Two other clips where you use the word cockamamie also were "ah ha" moments for me.

I hope you make clips with more "ah ha" moments, but I wish they were not so watered down. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Key Elements

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Key Elements said:

I hope you make clips with more "ah ha" moments, but I wish they were not so watered down.

Consider that the Ah-ha moments aren't being made by me, but by your mind. So direct your hope at your subconscious mind

[Philip]

@Lorcan My utopia is a technological one.

I hope we can transcend death, along with other biological limitations, by gradually becoming robots. Then from robots, the next step is super-intelligent nano-robotic neural networks.

Also, somewhere in the meantime, we could merge the minds of all humans into one single consciousness.

Then when we'll feel like expanding even more, we could take all the atoms on earth and make them participate to our computing power. Then the solar system. Then maybe other stars.

If we get there, we might still strive for an expansion of some kind. I don't know what it would be, but I suspect something along the lines of peace, connection or self-awareness.

And I'm not even talking about all the fun we'd have already had from virtual worlds, mind altering and updating our software through advanced stages of enlightenment and development no one can even dream of today.

To summarize, I think society should head towards the direction it's already been heading for millennia:

The unfolding of everyone's possibilities, as well as the harmonizing of everyone's intentions.

[Key Elements]

On 08/04/2016 at 11:53 PM, Leo Gura said:

Consider that the Ah-ha moments aren't being made by me, but by your mind. So direct your hope at your subconscious mind

Tell you something else, Leo. I felt that the ah-ha moments with your clips were really huge and not minor at all. It got me to look for more ah-ha moments elsewhere, but at the same time, as of now, I train my mind to be more into the flowing/egoless state to do my startup (life purpose). What an interesting process and how we run into so many things along the way. It will always be the process and ah-ha moments.

[Philip]

@Socrates

23 hours ago, Socrates said:

How you going to fit everyone in the planet?

Forget about planets. Planets are small random grains of sand in the universe. We can create astronomical structures incredibly more practical and complex than that if we try.

23 hours ago, Socrates said:

Guess if we robots then we don't need o2 and just fly around galaxy?

Yep. Or all humans merge, we become a black hole and have the galaxy fly around us. I personally aim for this one.

[Lorcan]

Creating a utopia, sure it could be difficult, but not beyond human intelligence. The evil of the human being is what ultiamately is stopping utopia.

[Lorcan]

We were born selfish, some more then others.

[JevinR]

@Lorcan If this is your vision, it would only make sense to pursue it

[Epiphany_Inspired]

I'm always going to go with Bucky, Buckminster Fuller's solutions.... also, The "venus project" is pretty cool: the idea is to evacuate cities, and re-use the materials for more sustainable cities (how they would get the people to leave is the challenge). The designs are gorgeous and the principals of these new societies are equally beautiful. It was Jacques Fresco's life purpose to create this, and he worked really hard, it's pretty amazing. These new utopian cities (on land and at sea) would solve problems like drinking and driving, by having the car sense the erratic driving, safely pull over, and stop.... but I doubt anyone would drink in such an awesome place where all of your survival needs are taken care of, and everyone is all about their life purpose!

[Philip]

@Socrates

2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Youre saying man is capable of building a planet?

On 4/9/2016 at 10:05 PM, Philip said:

We could take all the atoms on earth and make them participate to our computing power. Then the solar system. Then maybe other stars.

I'm talking about becoming advanced robots, dude. Not the meatbags we are now. We could never build a planet as simple humans.

[Philip]

@Socrates

As brain scans become more powerful, our knowledge of the brain becomes more accurate. Pretty soon it could be so accurate we can simulate the brain with some new powerful computer.

Which means we can make synthetic brain parts that are compatible with our biological ones. Then if we change parts of our brain one by one, each night for example, then we'll feel like we're fluidly growing in mental capacities. We won't feel disoriented by sudden mental changes, or feel like dying or anything strange.

And one morning, we'll wake up and nothing biological will be left in us. Nothing created by evolution itself. From that point, we're going to drive our own evolution. We can become self-reprogramming neural networks or nano-robot swarms or whatever. We'll decide.

That's if we don't get killed by world war III, a meteor, or if the laws of physics don't suddenly decide to crash. Of course.

[nbolt]

12 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@Philip Interesting.  Why not just kill off the human race and let robots take over?  If essentially thats what you want?  I don't see there would be any point living if there was nothing natural in us.  The very fact we have consciousness and emotions is what makes us want to live.  There would be no point, no feelings, no shared values, no intention, nothing.  The reason you make friends now is because that person feeds into your humanity well and makes values for you.  All of that is natural.  I dont see how getting rid of the natural is of any benefit.  Even your desire to want to live forever is natural.  and enlightenment is a human desire, and human experience, or at least natural expeience.  What's left when nature is left out?  Nothing as far as I can see. 

You don't understand what consciousness and feelings are. We are already robots, and will merely be shedding our biological machines for their non-biological counterparts. It is a possible next stage of human evolution.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Neill

[nbolt]

Just now, Socrates said:

Explain what consciousness and feeling are then.

I always assumed because I am human I already experience many feelings and I'm aware, have believes, can sense things.  I assumed tha is consciousness?  

They are nothing more than outputs of the programming of our biological brain. They can be produced from non-biological entities just as well.

[nbolt]

A recent episode of Black Mirror portrays this very well:

 

[Philip]

5 minutes ago, Socrates said:

I don't see there would be any point living if there was nothing natural in us.

You're probably just giving a special value to "natural" things for no reason. It's not because something comes from nature that it's better. For example, what's the difference between a "natural" molecule found in nature and a "synthetic" molecule created in a lab? There's none. They're both the same molecule, with the same atoms. And "synthetic" humans could have exactly the same molecules as "natural" humans do. And the distinction between the two makes no sense, because humans are natural and it's natural for us to create technology.

1 minute ago, Socrates said:

The very fact we have consciousness and emotions is what makes us want to live

Then just keep your consciousness and emotions. I won't try to get rid of those either. It seems stupid to do so.

15 minutes ago, Socrates said:

There would be no point, no feelings, no shared values, no intention, nothing

Yeah, if you program it that way. Which I don't encourage at all. It would be horribly boring.

17 minutes ago, Socrates said:

All of that is natural.

Natural. Not exclusively natural, though.

[Philip]

@Socrates

9 minutes ago, Socrates said:

So you could eliminate all bullshit like disease and negativity etc.

Yep. We could eliminate death.

We could slow our passage of time by speeding up our computation.

We could live inside virtual worlds that we can customize just by the power of will.

We could add any kind of sensory input to our experience, as well as any kind of output to our body.

We could adjust the level of emotional satisfaction we feel towards every single thing you could think of, and more.

One day, we might even forget what animals, trees and rocks are, if we decide to fundamentally change the nature of subjective experience to such a radical degree.

Like I said :

On 4/9/2016 at 10:05 PM, Philip said:

The unfolding of everyone's possibilities, as well as the harmonizing of everyone's intentions.

And what comes out is pure unrestricted creativity and bliss.

Nothing like the petty (but realistic) human ambitions @Leo Gura portrayed, up to now at least.