Can An Advice Be So Advanced It's Inefficient?

[Henri]

@abrakamowse  I`m telling you; when you use your acquired knowledge in a wrong way, it`s easy to make money...

[abrakamowse]

@Henri  I know.

[abrakamowse]

@Henri  @Philip I was thinking that Jesus advice was pretty inefficient, at least for most of the people who listened to his message and misunderstood it completely.

 

(I was one of them  )

Edited April 6, 2016 by abrakamowse

[Lynnel]

@Philip I always tend to give advice based on all my knowledge/experience, and sometimes, well, I feel some people can't relate nor comprehend what I'm really saying, because I need to clarify all the small things that are obvious to me. 

And generaly I tend not to give advice unless people ask for it, because, well, they're not gonna really TRY to understand or make use of it.

[Will]

@Lynnel I have the same perspective. 

However I am starting to realise I cant live in a shell either..we are all here for a reason..

that doesnt mean i want to convert anybody just that I would like to be converted

 

[Philip]

Another way of seeing the issue is on my mind since yesterday :

"Focus on aligning yourself with truth and with your highest values. Focus on growing yourself. Stop giving a fuck about convincing, about other people's growth or about how many people's lives you've changed. Maybe you'll end up helping people some day, but don't even think about it. That's not relevant to your own growth at all."

Obviously, the way I said it makes it sound easy to make the shift. To me at least, it's actually fucking hard to let go of the desire to be "the one who helps people". I'm deeply addicted to other people seeing me as a good person.

Even this very comment is a symptom of my dysfunction. And even this last sentence.

[Consept]

It seems that this thing of wanting to teach and tell people about your particular viewpoint isn't really unique to spirituality. Every religion does it, even people with certain lifestyles or political alegience or whatever opinion are always trying to convert you to their way of thinking, almost like it's not enough for them to just believe it and be done with it. 

You've got to think someone who is a completely fundamentalist Christian for example, believes in god creating the world in 7 days as much as you believe your thoughts aren't you. So the intention is the same, both believe by spreading this knowledge they may help someone. 

But I also think there's something else to it, like the ego is trying to convince itself of this belief, it feels strangely good when your idea is validated by someone else, by teaching others esp when not being enlightened yourself, is it just a way to seek validation for your ego? 

On the other hand, we are always drawn to teach and pass on our knowledge and experiences, essentially this is how evolution of ideas happens. But what I noticed is that when I first started getting in to this stuff I couldn't wait to tell and teach as many people as I could, as my 'journey' has gone on I found its not really important convincing anyone (esp when they don't want to be), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get your knowledge out there, it's just once it's out let it go, don't look for validation from it. 

Also if you did want to convince someone the best way is for you to be that example. Think about it how many opinions of people trying to convince of one thing or another do you hear everyday? If I have no experience of thing someone's talking about then I usually shut off to it. Same with when they hear about this stuff. You go out and live the best, most aware and conscious life you can, when you do that people will ask you what your secret is and then you tell them, to you it doesn't matter if they ask or not 

[Will]

8 hours ago, Philip said:

I'm deeply addicted to other people seeing me as a good person.

Can be easily reframed to giving to the world..

the world will accept whatever you produce, it has zero expectations.. this is really about you deciding what you want to contribute..

You own desire to be approved is irrelevant..

9 hours ago, Philip said:

let go of the desire to be "the one who helps people"

I dont think we need to help anyone.. but on the other hand we can challenge people

[Philip]

3 hours ago, Will said:

Can be easily reframed to giving to the world..

Easily ? ... 

[abrakamowse]

19 hours ago, Socrates said:

@abrakamowse

Can you elaborate on this please. I'm interested to hear more. 

Yes, no problem Socrates. This is my opinion based on my experience. I am not saying that I am right, and I am still studying about it, but everything I found out it confirms me the same thing.
In my opinion is not true that Jesus said that he had to die for our sins and if we believed in that, we will be saved. If you read the bible you will see he didn’t say that, his apostles said it.
He said that god and him were one. That’s what Buddhist say, and other true religions say like Christians mystics, (not mainstream Christians), Kabbalah, Zufi, Zen etc…
When Buddhist say you have to kill your ego, Jesus says “deny yourself”.
Everything that is written in the Bible has a more deep meaning than the one that we can see with our materialistic ego mind.
For example, the Bible says that we can’t do an image of God. The Protestants say that you can’t do an statue of anything in heaven, the Catholics don’t interpret it like that and they do statues of Jesus, etc.
But the point is that most of the mainstream churches see it in the physical way, they think about not doing an statue, but I was listening to Alan Watts and he said something that it makes a lot of sense.  
We should not do an image of god in our mind. That was mind blown for me. And I think is true.

You can read the Christian gospels on so many levels, they are so deep and full of wisdom,  but it can reflect too the worst of you if you are full of ego, like the mainstream churches that they are only interested in creating an empire and not to explain the real truth about God.
There are a lot of more examples like that, I will write about them soon in my journal, in the journal sector of the forum.
Let me know if you want to find out more, I am really an admirer of Jesus teachings, and I think the apostles didn’t understand most of the things he taught to them.

 

Note: I don't know about this Church but I found this googleing and I think it is interesting. I have some videos too about this. But maybe we should open another thread to not hijack this one.
:-)

http://thechurchoftruth.org/jesus-did-not-die-for-your-sins/

Edited April 7, 2016 by abrakamowse
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[abrakamowse]

9 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@abrakamowse Thanks. I wait on your further writings. I also deeply interested in this one

Cool, it's an exciting topic.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, definitely. The art of being a great teacher is being able to meet the student where he's at.

I find that many of the most spiritually advanced sages are NOT able to do this. Because they cannot identify with what it's like to be stuck in low-consciousness, because they are like virtuosos. Or they have been enlightened so long they forget what it's like to be "normal".

Which is why most average people cannot get any practical value out of sages. Their advice just goes in one ear and out the others. The sage appears untouchable. The sage appears to be an idealistic dreamer who's out of touch with "reality".

A lot of my advice is frankly dumbed-down so that people find it relatable. If I just flat out stated things as they appear to me in my mind, most people would be like, "WTF are you smoking?"

And this problem only gets worse as one develops. It doesn't get easier because the gap between you and your average student grows wider every year.

[Joseph Maynor]

On 4/7/2016 at 8:09 PM, Leo Gura said:

Yes, definitely. The art of being a great teacher is being able to meet the student where he's at.

I find that many of the most spiritually advanced sages are NOT able to do this. Because they cannot identify with what it's like to be stuck in low-consciousness, because they are like virtuosos. Or they have been enlightened so long they forget what it's like to be "normal".

Which is why most average people cannot get any practical value out of sages. Their advice just goes in one ear and out the others. The sage appears untouchable. The sage appears to be an idealistic dreamer who's out of touch with "reality".

A lot of my advice is frankly dumbed-down so that people find it relatable. If I just flat out stated things as they appear to me in my mind, most people would be like, "WTF are you smoking?"

And this problem only gets worse as one develops. It doesn't get easier because the gap between you and your average student grows wider every year.

This is so important to keep in mind.  So important.  As I grow I gotta remember this.  It is so tempting to talk from where you are versus where the person who asked the question is.  Like -- lemme boost you to my level; but this is often met with confusion.  The more you grow, the more you have to work on putting yourself in the shoes of others.  

This video goes well with this advice:

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor