Issue/challenge when quieting the mind

[SoonHei]

I have a question

I had brief moments yesterday of what I'd like to call "no mind" 

It was simply being as it's often said

Beautiful it was

 

Any effort to try to explain it or think about it shook me out of it... I remember a video of Osho in which during his interview he says that "my meditation is not disturbed" even by talking, walking, showering etc... He is fully deeply in that state. Of course that requires a lot of disassoation and dropping of the ego fully. 

I guess being able to stay in the watchful state and even meta-observe your thoughts is most difficult.

 

My simple question for the time being is this

 

During that state of watchfulness / no mind. I can remain / rest as awareness ... No concerns there.

But when I want to read something, a book, an article or a post on the forum... then I don't know if that is me again have thoughts in mind as I read... How do we read in our head. Is that giving birth to the voice in the head?? I can't just stare at the words and read . I have to "read" them in my head... 

The state of no-mind seems to slip away from me in the act of reading something... Because to me that seems like the voice in my head is active again...

Watching a video is ok because I just hear the sound... But the tiniest of effort is needed to read and that to me seems to bring me out of the no-mind state

 

 

 

[Jack River]

Seems like an imposed “no mind state”. Thought will do this. Identify as no mind. 

20 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

Watching a video is ok because I just hear the sound... But the tiniest of effort is needed to read and that to me seems to bring me out of the no-mind state

 

As long as it is not a movement of psychological effort then mind is doing its function and not going beyond its limit. I tend to listen better than reading text too. Reading may demand effort to understand words and context. It’s the psychological effort that causes the thoughts/emotions reactions that feed the illusion of division. 

 

[Jack River]

There is the imposed quieting of mind, which is temporary and not as deep, and there is the ending of time itself that is direct action to this quiet “state”. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@SoonHei Image being in a restaurant with lots of background chatter. Can you take a step out and have a meta perspective? That is, a meta awareness that the background chatter is *within* something more holistic. Of course, because the mind is not conditioned to attach to, and identify with, background chatter in restaurants. You wouldn’t need all the patrons to stop talking to see the holistic picture. Trying to shut them up would actually interfere with seeing the holistic picture because the background chatter is part of the holistic picture.

Thoughts in the mind are similar to background chatter in a restaurant. But here, the human mind is conditioned to attach to, and identify with, the chatter. Allow your thoughts to be background chatter. In a restaurant, we wouldn’t go from table to table trying to engage in their conversations. Why do we do so in our own mind? 

[Jack River]

Maybe mind is still divided. The abstract line between the experiencer and the experienced sustains the reality of the illusion. We are taken in by this illusion. A type of play but we are taken in by it. 

[DrewNows]

I spoke of this with @Jack River a little while back. This reading is "conditioned fear-based effort" / "concentration" (reading aloud in the head as to comprehend all) Ive noticed fear is lingering in the habit itself. For me it was and sometimes still is a trigger anytime i go to read books and other dense material. 

Ive tried to forcefully control and stop this sort of conditioning and it never seems to work. Let go of the illusion of control, division, separation and effort. For me it is observed until transcended

[DrewNows]

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Maybe mind is still divided. The abstract line between the experiencer and the experienced sustains the reality of the illusion. We are taken in by this illusion. A type of play but we are taken in by it. 

yea dude exactly 

@SoonHeiThere is no "quieting the mind" as in effort to reach/sustain no self. It is an occurrence of undivided attention to what is

[NoSelfSelf]

You use the no mind state to realize yourself getting enlightened then when you are enlightened you can think and wont go back into suffering like before

[Jack River]

12 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

SoonHeiThere is no "quieting the mind" as in effort to reach/sustain no self. It is an occurrence of undivided attention to what is

Fosho. Operating in the mind pattern “queting the mind” or controlling mind is itself a movement of mind. Effort/time is a divided approach. Like practice, routines, a (way or path) serve to sustain this mind movement and feed that movement itself. Therefore always pushing freedom further away in time (the i will be in time) as in procrastination. Thought will always push freedom away to be achieved later. That’s not the way it works though. That is the pattern that enslaves. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Intention/effort/psychological time as a reaction just keeps the loop of conflict alive and feeds the division itself. So it all becomes a vicious cycle. 

[SoonHei]

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

Fosho. Operating in the mind pattern “queting the mind” or controlling mind is itself a movement of mind. Effort/time is a divided approach. Like practice, routines, a (way or path) serve to sustain this mind movement and feed that movement itself. Therefore always pushing freedom further away in time (the i will be in time) as in procrastination. Thought will always push freedom away to be achieved later. That’s not the way it works though. That is the pattern that enslaves. 

@Jack River @DrewNows thank you 

 

I guess the "way" (no-way) to do this is also very subtly creep back into awareness as the mind chatter continues... Just like I was able to do so on some level for the body/senses.

 

@Serotoninluv thanks . Disassociation is in the works

[Leo Gura]

@SoonHei The bottom line is that it takes lots of mindfulness pratice and multiple awakenings.

The more you do the work more no-mind you will experience. At first it will be only seconds at a time, but with more practice it will turn into minutes, and then hours.

Kriya yoga is very good for attaining no-mind. It will speed up your progess a lot.

You can also specifically train mindfulness during busy work. Start by doing walking meditation. The try to meditate while driving, while doing the dishes, while out in public, and even inside of conversations. All of this will take a few years at least.

Attaining stable no-mind is not easy at all. It is a very advanced stage of practice and I am certaibly not there after 5 years of meditation and other kinds of work.

But I am getting closer. Just lately I made a significant step towards no-mind and I can see that it will come with years more of practice.

It's worth the work.

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@SoonHei The bottom line is that it takes lots of mindfulness pratice and multiple awakenings.

The more you do the work more no-mind you will experience. At first it will be only seconds at a time, but with more practice it will turn into minutes, and then hours.

Kriya yoga is very good for attaining no-mind. It will speed up your progess a lot.

You can also specifically train mindfulness during busy work. Start by doing walking meditation. The try to meditate while driving, while doing the dishes, while out in public, and even inside of conversations. All of this will take a few years at least.

Attaining stable no-mind is not easy at all. It is a very advanced stage of practice and I am certaibly not there after 5 years of meditation and other kinds of work.

But I am getting closer. Just lately I made a significant step towards no-mind and I can see that it will come with years more of practice.

It's worth the work.

Are you sure there aren’t easier ways of getting there. I’m doing The Work of Byron Katie, and my mind is becoming very still after just four months of practice. These days my whole body is just oozing with ecstasy. A lot of the time my mind is in ‘actuality’ rather than just wondering off into theoryland. 

Before I started The Work of Byron Katie, I did mindfulness meditation for three months, then Neti Neti for three months, then Kriya Yoga for four months. None of them worked for me quite as well. I suggest you stop thinking of The Work as just a means to ‘cure depression’ and think of it as a very strong technique for mastery of the mind.

[SoonHei]

@How to be wise the Work being those 4 questions only??

You just ask those questions throughout the day? How exactly do you apply that method.?

 

 

[Forestluv]

11 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Are you sure there aren’t easier ways of getting there. I’m doing The Work of Byron Katie, and my mind is becoming very still after just four months of practice. These days my whole body is just oozing with ecstasy. A lot of the time my mind is in ‘actuality’ rather than just wondering off into theoryland. 

Before I started The Work of Byron Katie, I did mindfulness meditation for three months, then Neti Neti for three months, then Kriya Yoga for four months. None of them worked for me quite as well. I suggest you stop thinking of The Work as just a means to ‘cure depression’ and think of it as a very strong technique for mastery of the mind.

Be aware of associating "progress" with "ecstasy". This was a major trap for me. Awakening has no preference toward bliss or terror. Awakening doesn't care if the personality feels good or awful.

Also, the personality is not a static construct. It is dynamic - constantly evolving. There are methods that may resonate with a personality. Yet, the idea of a "correct" or "better" method is very subjective. If Byron Katie resonates with you and your intuition draws you in that direction - go for it. Yet, your personality may outgrow Katie. Things that seem spiritual or true today - might not seem spiritual or true next month. Neti Neti, Kriya Yoga may re-enter. Or a new method may enter.

I observe a lot of suffering caused by the personality trying to maintain the illusion of a static personality over time. 

[Jack River]

17 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Also, the personality is not a static construct. It is dynamic - constantly evolving

 

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I observe a lot of suffering caused by the personality trying to maintain the illusion of a static personality over time. 

self clings to the content of memory/thought and that sustains division and conflict. Thought is then transcending it’s own limit. Seeking security in thought is the reason for insecurity(suffering/conflict). Great heads up fosho @Serotoninluv

[Jack River]

@Serotoninluv when this is taken even further and seen with holistic insight we soon may find that all methods/paths also fall within the pattern of the dynamic self seeking security in the static content of thought. 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@Serotoninluv when this is taken even further and seen with holistic insight we soon may find that all methods/paths also fall within the pattern of the dynamic self seeking security in the static content of thought. 

For sure. I would just add ". . . seeking security in the illusory  static content of thought" for clarity.

This goes for all thought. Including ideas that seem spiritual, profound or insightful. Including everything written in this thread. Including everything that has ever been written or expressed about enlightenment. Believing any of it is a limitation trap. Even very high spiritual masters get caught in this trap to an extent. There are spiritual masters that believe in spiritual ideas and concepts. 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

For sure. I would just add ". . . seeking security in the illusory  static content of thought" for clarity.

This goes for all thought. Including ideas that seem spiritual, profound or insightful. Including everything written in this thread. Including everything that has ever been written or expressed about enlightenment. Believing any of it is a limitation trap. Even very high spiritual masters get caught in this trap to an extent. There are spiritual masters that believe in spiritual ideas and concepts. 

Yep. Most definitely. Very important to be aware of that. Well said brah?

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

Be aware of associating "progress" with "ecstasy". This was a major trap for me. Awakening has no preference toward bliss or terror. Awakening doesn't care if the personality feels good or awful. 

100% wrong. The more conscious you are, the more you feel blissful with life. This is so obvious! I can’t believe that you don’t know that yet.

In Vedanta, they associate “The absolute” with three terms: Sat Chit Ananda, which means Truth, Consciousness, Bliss. 

Do more study please! Awakening clearly has a preference to bliss. Unconsciousness prefers terror.