Is painless suicide the goal of meditation?

[Nadosa]

25 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Your post in one of the reasons why I dislike @Leo Gura talking about deep topics containing phrases like death, ego suicide, etc. To someone that is as far as Leo or more advanced, this kind of talk can make sense and illustrate ideas or experiences. To someone like @Baotrader, it is confusing and misleading because you don't have the capacity yet to make sense of it. That's why in Zen they only give the knowledge to you, that you can handle. Otherwise, ppl would go crazy.

So true.

[Baotrader]

2 hours ago, Nadosa said:

 

@Azrael be careful with your theory, man. I appreciate your concern but i had a feeling meditation is for suicide long before Leo said things like death, suicide 

[Dodo]

Basically in non-duality you can say anything and when someone comes back to you with a slightly different phrasing which sounds too nihilistic, you can just wave your hand and say no, thats not wwhat I meant, this topic is too deep for you.

Life is eternal. There is no evidence of non-life. You cannot be dead. If you are dead, there is no you to "be dead". Life is the default state. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Dodo

[Rilles]

Who dies? is there anything to die except the illusion? Can you define what death is? Have you ever experienced it?

[Dodo]

I also want to add that seeking Ego death is a fool's errand, because the Ego is already an illusion. Suicide can be done only if you believe you are the body and you believe that by ending the body you end yourself. There is a base error there. If the body dies, you do not die. Hence suicide is impossible - it is a fool's errand. Enjoy being, peace.

[Nadosa]

So you are basically trapped if you want to kill yourself but know you can't kill yourself. Yep that is how I feel.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Nadosa

[Rilles]

@Nadosa Not quite true, you can kill the body and be rid of painful emotions, but you cant kill the reality that you are. 

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Dodo said:

 

I also want to add that seeking Ego death is a fool's errand,

 

Fosho. It’s a sustaining reaction of ego. 

This death goes way deeper than people think. It gets closer to when getting into the ending of experience carryover. 

[Dodo]

32 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Fosho. It’s a sustaining reaction of ego. 

This death goes way deeper than people think. It gets closer to when getting into the ending of experience carryover. 

I had a dream last night in which I was super identified (more than usual) with the character in the dream. The character was almost exactly the same as my current egoic identity. I did not know I was asleep. I was talking to my sister and told her her behaviour was caused by Satan - because I see her as materialistic. Then as I mentioned Satan I experienced a very strong fear that something is coming for "me". I was scared to think about that word/name, but I kept thinking about it... And then I sensed something like I was dying... I became something like a whirlwind... I dont know, freaked me out. Was all an illusion. The Me that died was not real. Never was, never has been, never will be. 

[Jack River]

10 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Then as I mentioned Satan I experienced a very strong fear that something is coming for "me"

Yep. The thinking Satan(thought) and the experiencer are actually one process of thought itself. I can see the association that brought about this fear. 

 

12 minutes ago, Dodo said:

I was scared to think about that word/name, but I kept thinking about it... And then I sensed something like I was dying.

I think I’m following you dude,I feel ya..

I have gone through this recently. This is letting the thought/feeling flower and die. Usually we hold on to the to this cycle of thought/feeling process and don’t slow it to dissolve totally. We condemn it accept which keeps it alive, which is that experience carryover I mentioned. The degree that we can do this determines the degree that experience that will stop being carried over. Then more awareness put on this process/movement the less of a veil of thought is carried over on top of what is. 

 

[aurum]

11 hours ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

I have experienced something similar to what you described. Here's how a typical SDS would go for me: 

Discomfort starts to arise, but I choose to be motionless. My body is rigid, but I keep myself still anyway. The pain gets more intense. But I resist. My body ends up getting even more tensed (but I don't notice).

At some point, I get acclimated to the pain. It's still uncomfortable but is not bothering me anymore. I'm now, in a twisted way, enjoying being in that state. I wanna stop it (like I naturally would), but at the same time I sort of like it.  

Then, when the session is over, I feel hyper-aware. 

@aurum How does that differ from your experience? I look forward to hearing from you. 

I think there’s depths of nonresistance you can get into. What you’re describing here sounds like a basic level of tolerance, although I could be wrong.

I’m talking about a dramatic shift in your levels of resistance, usually which happens all at once when you can’t take it anymore.

[Gabriel Antonio]

On 11/3/2018 at 3:37 PM, aurum said:

I think there’s depths of nonresistance you can get into. What you’re describing here sounds like a basic level of tolerance, although I could be wrong.

I’m talking about a dramatic shift in your levels of resistance, usually which happens all at once when you can’t take it anymore.

I've had that. I used to be pretty hardcore, like I would allow mosquitoes to bite me, meditate in very cold temperatures, and that sort of thing. In all cases, I would eventually get desensitized and would get used to the discomfort. 

Looking in retrospect, all that "endurance of pain" was useless and unhealthy. I was just feeding my spiritual ego, like "Look at all the things I can do! I just meditated in excruciating pain for 2 and a half hours without moving. I'm getting so advanced!" Nothing could be further from the truth...

Edited November 6, 2018 by Gabriel Antonio

[aurum]

20 hours ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

Looking in retrospect, all that "endurance of pain" was useless and unhealthy. I was just feeding my spiritual ego, like "Look at all the things I can do! I just meditated in excruciating pain for 2 and a half hours without moving. I'm getting so advanced!" Nothing could be further from the truth...

That could definitely happen. But it's undoubtedly effective too.