Is painless suicide the goal of meditation?

[Baotrader]

It has become clear to me for long that meditation is for suicide. But i find it hard to believe/accept (or if you dont like the word believe you can call it whatever you want) that we can feel painless when your body is in pain. The most annoying and gruesome pain is the pain in the stomach ( in my experience). How can one meditate under stomach's pain? How can suicide be painless?

[Rilles]

Enough nonsense! Meditation is facing pain head on, has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.

[WelcometoReality]

@Baotrader if the body is in pain there will be pain unless you take painkillers. Is that what you are talking about or is it 'negative' feelings in the stomach area such as fear or anxiety?

[Shadowraix]

38 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Enough nonsense! Meditation is facing pain head on, has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.

More like becoming immune to it.

Ego death = suicide

meditation will only bring you closer to it.

[iamme]

I don't do meditation, only self inquiry. Maybe that's incorrect, but my instinct tells me that if I don't know what I'm doing, I can easily turn meditation into a glorified suppression tool. Just like I don't do bhakti yoga because worship doesn't seem to be right for me. Just do self inquiry and pay attention to your unwanted/ false beliefs. 

[non_nothing]

"Death is the most beautiful thing that would happen to you" - Leo the Bald

[Gabriel Antonio]

2 hours ago, Baotrader said:

It has become clear to me for long that meditation is for suicide.

That's a misconception. There's no need to kill anything. 

Meditation is a systematic training of the mind. It's similar to taming a wild horse. Or training a puppy.

The goal is not to kill the mind but to make it your ally, like a loyal dog.  

 

2 hours ago, Baotrader said:

we can feel painless when your body is in pain.

That's actually called numbness.

Pain is essential for our survival. It's how the body tells that something's not right. 

 

2 hours ago, Baotrader said:

How can one meditate under stomach's pain?

The traditional advice is, "Stay mindful of the sensation."

But sometimes you need to seek an alternative to dealing with the pain. Trying to be mindful is not always the answer... 

 

2 hours ago, Baotrader said:

It has become clear to me for long that meditation is for suicide.

By the way you express yourself, I think you might need psychological help.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Gabriel Antonio

[lmfao]

@Baotrader To meditate with the purpose of getting somewhere or achieving something is to be against the spirit of meditation, in a sense. My view of meditation is that meditation is just being accepting of the present moment, however the present moment is. Tomorrow never comes because your experience is always now. To me, the goal of meditation is "truth". You are paying close attention to reality as it is.

Heres another thing which may be worth thinking about. An "enlightened" person can still have an ego they act upon and present to the world, its just that they don't take their ego with any real seriousness. I like Leo's analogy of video games for enlightenment. For an enlightened person they haven't really "destroyed" their ego its just that they regard their ego as another happening of reality and don't take what happens to it too seriously, the same way I don't take seriously the events that happen to my charecter in a video game. The ego is seen through but it can still be present. 

What I have said is just another perspective. The only way for you to find out what the goal of meditation is is to try and meditate yourself.

Here's a pretty neet video on what suffering is. I'm linking it since you're asking about pain (and probably suffering) in relation to meditation and also in relation to life in general. 

https://youtu.be/9u9nuSf9g1g

 

[Shin]

3 hours ago, Rilles said:

Enough nonsense! Meditation is facing pain head on, has nothing whatsoever to do with suicide.

What do you think happens when you realize the self doesn't really exist ?

???

Edited November 1, 2018 by Shin

[Hellspeed]

6 hours ago, Baotrader said:

It has become clear to me for long that meditation is for suicide. But i find it hard to believe/accept (or if you dont like the word believe you can call it whatever you want) that we can feel painless when your body is in pain. The most annoying and gruesome pain is the pain in the stomach ( in my experience). How can one meditate under stomach's pain? How can suicide be painless?

Learn to direct the energy from the 3rd angle into the 1st so your pain will get fixed. 

[aurum]

12 hours ago, Baotrader said:

It has become clear to me for long that meditation is for suicide. But i find it hard to believe/accept (or if you dont like the word believe you can call it whatever you want) that we can feel painless when your body is in pain. The most annoying and gruesome pain is the pain in the stomach ( in my experience). How can one meditate under stomach's pain? How can suicide be painless?

Pain isn't as bad as we think.

You can experience this if you practice Strong Determination Sitting. You're sitting there in the most awful pain, and you think that's the reason why you're suffering. Until you have that breakthrough moment where resistance drops completely.

Once that happens, the pain is still there. But it's surprisingly enjoyable. All that suffering was you not trying to be where you are. Pretty ironic.

[Gabriel Antonio]

21 minutes ago, aurum said:

Once that happens, the pain is still there. But it's surprisingly enjoyable.

Isn't that masochism?

[aurum]

30 minutes ago, Gabriel Antonio said:

Isn't that masochism?

No it’s not. It’s hard to understand with words if you haven’t experienced it.

I like to feel good, so under normal circumstances I would not choose to sit there. But if you’ve made the deliberate choice to sit there, that’s what you’re doing. That’s reality at this moment. Might as well accept it. 

[Torkys]

@Gabriel Antonio A masochist in attached to feeling pain and resist not feeling it. To the experienced meditator, it doesn't matter whether they experience pain or not. 

[Hellspeed]

Yes, the ritualistic suicide of the garbage one accumulates. 

[Rilles]

31 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

Yes, the ritualistic suicide of the garbage one accumulates. 

this

[GeoLura]

Did you commit a suicide when you woke up from the last nights dream?

[Jack River]

Isn’t it implicit in meditation that all goal orientation or self/concentrated movement is dormant? 

Isnt a goal(directing/pursuing) sustaining self activity and therefore resisting death? 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Gabriel Antonio]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, aurum said:

No it’s not. It’s hard to understand with words if you haven’t experienced it.

I have experienced something similar to what you described. Here's how a typical SDS would go for me: 

Discomfort starts to arise, but I choose to be motionless. My body is rigid, but I keep myself still anyway. The pain gets more intense. But I resist. My body ends up getting even more tensed (but I don't notice).

At some point, I get acclimated to the pain. It's still uncomfortable but is not bothering me anymore. I'm now, in a twisted way, enjoying being in that state. I wanna stop it (like I naturally would), but at the same time I sort of like it.  

Then, when the session is over, I feel hyper-aware. 

@aurum How does that differ from your experience? I look forward to hearing from you. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Gabriel Antonio

[Azrael]

On 1.11.2018 at 7:44 AM, Baotrader said:

It has become clear to me for long that meditation is for suicide. But i find it hard to believe/accept (or if you dont like the word believe you can call it whatever you want) that we can feel painless when your body is in pain. The most annoying and gruesome pain is the pain in the stomach ( in my experience). How can one meditate under stomach's pain? How can suicide be painless?

Your post in one of the reasons why I dislike @Leo Gura talking about deep topics containing phrases like death, ego suicide, etc. To someone that is as far as Leo or more advanced, this kind of talk can make sense and illustrate ideas or experiences. To someone like @Baotrader, it is confusing and misleading because you don't have the capacity yet to make sense of it. That's why in Zen they only give the knowledge to you, that you can handle. Otherwise, ppl would go crazy.