Posted April 3, 2016 When we apply the method of deduction, saying: If i'm aware of the body - i'm not the body If i'm aware of the thoughts - i'm not the thoughts How is this method of negation not a story? How do you know that you can't be both the thoughts and be aware of them? What if you could? Why can't I be self aware? Who said i can't be both aware of the body and be the body? https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 @Actualizer Saying to yourself "If i'm aware of the body - i'm not the body" is another story, but the story appears within what it was attempting to point to. The story could never truly convey the reality, because the story is an appearance within what it is trying to convey. The words "If i'm aware of the body - i'm not the body" are not true, the reality of what the words are pointing to is what's true. This is why Leo says the map is not the territory. You cannot be both the thoughts and the awareness because who is it that would be claiming to be the thoughts? The only thing that could claim to be a thought, is another thought. Thought has to identify with itself. But, in order for any of those thoughts to even exist in the first place, there would have to first be an "awareness" for them to arise within. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, Infinite said: But, in order for any of those thoughts to even exist in the first place, there would have to first be an "awareness" for them to arise within. How do you know that? what if there's no need for it? it's possible that they are self aware. https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 @Actualizer If there is absolutely no awareness, then how could the thoughts be known? Even by claiming that the thoughts could be self aware implies that there's an awareness. Claiming that thoughts could be self aware is contradictory to your experience. Thoughts having self awareness means that each individual thought is aware of itself, which would make awareness thought dependent. Observing direct experience will show you that there is an awareness independent of the thoughts, which would be impossible if the thoughts were self aware. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) @Infinite Well not only thoughts, but also feelings, emotions, sensations. When you say awareness must exist in order to be aware you separate them. In other words, if there were no experiences, would there be a need for an experiencer? They go together, and in fact one. Of course I haven't had an experience of this sort yet. Edited April 3, 2016 by Actualizer https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 @Actualizer I meant that awareness must exist for anything to be known. Awareness is prior to everything. It's difficult to translate these ideas sometimes because of the limitations of language, and the words are never the truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 @Infinite While that seems a logical story. I have a feeling that there are just sensations and the phantom of the witness or awareness was created through repetition of concepts. Like when you spin a cigarette in the dark, you see a circle. but is there a circle? https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, Actualizer said: In other words, if there were no experiences, would there be a need for an experiencer? They go together, and in fact one. Of course I haven't had an experience of this sort yet. The border of self/other, experiencer/experienced is illusory, there is simply experience itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, Actualizer said: While that seems a logical story. I have a feeling that there are just sensations and the phantom of the witness or awareness was created through repetition of concepts. How could awareness have been created out of repetition of concepts, when awareness is prior to the concepts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 @Actualizer What arose out of the repetition of concepts was the illusion of self, not awareness. Awareness is that which allows the concepts to be known, whereas the illusion of self requires concepts to remain sustained. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 I just feel speaking about awareness in context with other things is illogical, since it is all the things and experiences combined, and thus indescribable and incomprehensible. https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Infinite said: Awareness is that which allows the concepts to be known By whom? https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 (edited) @Actualizer Once again, limitations of language. Awareness only knows itself, but I have to use seemingly dualistic language in order to explain that the concept of awareness, is not awareness. (Even though the concept that appears within awareness IS awareness, because awareness is all there is.) Speaking about awareness is impossible... Just turn inward lmao. Edited April 3, 2016 by Infinite Spelling error Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Actualizer said: How do you know that you can't be both the thoughts and be aware of them? What if you could? You are! You are simultaneously everything phenomenal and not it either. 3 hours ago, Actualizer said: Why can't I be self aware? Who said i can't be both aware of the body and be the body? You are self-aware! Awareness is aware of itself and also of the body and of the mind. The problem is that you're mis-identified with the mind, which occurs as a temporary flux within awareness. When the mind is gone, what then? You need to draw a sharp distinction between awareness and thoughts/mind. Right now you think you're the mind, but in fact the mind is only a tiny part of the larger you. The larger you is empty awareness that transcends even existence and non-existence. It's such an odd fact that it's impossible for the mind to grasp it. Because the mind cannot truly grasp facts, it only grasps images of facts. What needs to happen here is for you to let go of all the images, so that the facts can dawn on you. This is a totally foreign thing for you. You've never had a direct experience of the facts in your entire life yet. If and when you do, it will be like waking up from a dream. So be careful about trying to judge or analyze the outcome of Truth from inside the dream state. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3, 2016 Thank you for your replies. I will keep seeking https://antonsjournal.home.blog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 16, 2023 On 03/04/2016 at 9:15 PM, Infinite said: @Actualizer Saying to yourself "If i'm aware of the body - i'm not the body" is another story, but the story appears within what it was attempting to point to. The story could never truly convey the reality, because the story is an appearance within what it is trying to convey. The words "If i'm aware of the body - i'm not the body" are not true, the reality of what the words are pointing to is what's true. This is why Leo says the map is not the territory. You cannot be both the thoughts and the awareness because who is it that would be claiming to be the thoughts? The only thing that could claim to be a thought, is another thought. Thought has to identify with itself. But, in order for any of those thoughts to even exist in the first place, there would have to first be an "awareness" for them to arise within. Playing devil's advocate, what about the Bible which says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." What if there is a godly thought that existed before even awareness itself that created awareness. In such a case we are talking about an unconscious God, as in perhaps a series of random or otherwise generated code which create a self knowing space of awareness? Mind over Matter, Awareness over Mind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 16, 2023 (edited) This thread is from 2016. Locked for necroposting. Edited April 16, 2023 by Osaid Describe a thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
