Distinction and Separation - A Discourse

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, Consilience said:

And the kicker is that none of this that you describe is separate from itself. It’s all happening simultaneously, in each moment as a collective untit of consciousness. Nothing that’s actual is ever separate from itself. 

Fosho. Distinction is relative. We make the distinction between say relative and absolute.    

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

And the kicker is that none of this that you describe is separate from itself. It’s all happening simultaneously, in each moment as a collective untit of consciousness. Nothing that’s actual is ever separate from itself. 

But see that’s a thought-story though.  Nothing actually seen in reality suggests that.  That’s a thought-story laid on top of what’s actually seen.  I don’t think non-duality is hurt by the fact that distinctions are seen.  In fact, it’s a paradox; on the one hand there are distinctions and on the other hand everything is being picked up by my Awareness.  And the latter can be seen, it’s not a thought-story.  This idea that all distinctions need to or should collapse is a thought-story about what is actually seen.   But everything is happening within one consciousness, one Awareness, which can be seen.  That’s what non-duality is pointing to.  Non-duality points to the fact that God Awareness is the only thing that actually exists permanently without changing, and God Awareness is aware of fluxing, changing actual Experience; and God Awareness is also aware of illusion.  God Awareness is aware of the distinction between actual Experience and illusion.  Be careful about conclusions about what non-duality should be.  That's you trying to fit reality into a concept.  That leads to clinging to thought-stories.  On the one hand there are changing distinctions, but all changing distinctions are happening within one changeless Awareness.  That’s what non-duality means from a seeing point of view.  God Awareness is the only thing that actually exists.  Changing actual Experience exists, but it’s not a thing.  There’s only one true thing in reality, and that’s the one God Awareness.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

@Consilience have you seen the distinctions we apply when looking “inward”, psychologically? As I referred to earlier. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

But see that’s a thought-story though.  Nothing actually seen in reality suggests that.  That’s a thought-story laid on top of what’s actually seen.  I don’t think nonduality is hurt by the fact that distinctions are seen.  In fact, it’s a paradox; on the one hand there are distinctions and on the other hand everything is being picked up by my Awareness.  And the latter can be seen, it’s not a thought-story.  This idea that all distinctions need to or should collapse is a thought-story about what is actually seen.   But everything is happening within one consciousness, one Awareness, which can be seen.  That’s what non-duality is pointing to.  Non-duality points to the fact that God Awareness is the only thing that actually exists permanently without changing, and God Awareness is aware of fluxing, changing actual Experience.  God Awareness is also aware of the distinction between actual Experience and illusion.  Be careful about conclusions about what non-duality should be.  That leads to clinging to thought-stories.  On the one hand there are changing distinctions, but all changing distinctions are happening within one changeless Awareness.  That’s what non-duality means from a seeing point of view.  God Awareness is the only thing that actually exists.  Changing actual Experience exists, but it’s not a thing.  There’s only one true thing in reality, and that’s the one God Awareness.

It’s not a thought story. It’s an observation of direct experience. Even if god awareness is the 1 aspect of direct experience which is permanent, it is still not separate from that which is aware. It is all just.... itself. That’s my obseration at least. When I look out into the world, or when Im at home meditating, there is no separation, just flucuations of impermanent phenomena and the awareness that observes it all. But all of it is happening as a whole. 

When concentration slices through and registers distinction, we can form thought stories like “a separate self.” But when you actually observe direct experience in its totality, there is nothing separate. It is all just itself. 

This requires no thinking to observe as far as I can see. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

@Consilience have you seen the distinctions we apply when looking “inward”, psychologically? As I referred to earlier. 

Yes! It is all one movement, propigating self survial. Tbh Im not aware of this 24/7 but especially when meditating it becomes very obvious.

[now is forever]

not so sure if you guys got the distinction thing right. you don’t just see distinction. distinction is also not separation and it is also no difference. either distinction is just distinctive or you make distinction up.

[Forestluv]

If you dare, venture to the null void. All distinctions will dissolve into absolute nothingness. As you return, distinctions will gradually appear.

The conceptualizing about distinctions in this thread may seem basic, yet the level distinction for these concepts is extraordinarily high. So are the distinctions required to create a sense of self. There is a mind-boggling amount of distinctions in the human mind that have appeared over millions of years of evolution. 

If there was a 2hr. movie that began at the null void and gradually allowed distinctions to appear - the level of conceptualization occurring here wouldn't appear until after 1.5hr. into the movie. There is so much occurring before all this conceptualization. Yet, I would guess that the vast majority of viewers would get bored with this and want to fast forward to the ending.

[now is forever]

@Serotoninluv yes, like starting a book at the last chapter. not understanding it’s a sequel prior to the prequel 

and overlooking the book is an anthology.

Edited October 30, 2018 by now is forever