Distinction and Separation - A Discourse

[Consilience]

Yo. An insight I had during meditation today that I felt like sharing - 

Distinction is infinite. Observe this within direct experience. No matter where we observe, no matter how finely we constrict our concentration, or how broadly we let our awareness expand, the depth and types of distinction continue to manifest and manifest ad infinitum. Conscious experience is infinitely divisible from the macro and micro, no matter what perceptual sense, more and more distinctions may be drawn. Become conscious of this right now. 

Separation is division amongst an infinite field of distinction. Whenever separation manifests, it does so by dividing a set of distinctions from another set of dictions. Observe this within direct experience. For example, self and other is a division within an infinite field of distinctions. Separation may be formed around any myriad of distinctions, because remember, distinction is infinite in all directions of experience. Separation is free to take advantage of this phenomena in an equally infinite number of ways. 

However, relative to the totality of direct experience, there is no such thing as separation, there is only direct experience. There IS ONLY direct experience. Verify this right now please. Furthermore, please directly experience how direct experience cannot be separate from itself, because... it is itself. If we classify a set of distinctions as separate from another set of distinctions, this DOES NOT allow for separation from the total field of direct experience, because remember: there is only direct experience.

In this light, separation does not exist as direct experience, it exists as a metta distinction amongst an infinite field of distinctions, but nevertheless always apart of the whole of direct conscious experience. 

Separation is only a conceptualization of direct experience; separation is a conceptual web around direct experience classifying and dividing an infinite pool of distinctions into a metta distinction, but there is no such thing as separation of direct experience as a whole, despite how it may be divided. 

Anyways... Now I'm looking at my dog and realizing he is literally just as "me" as the egoic self is... Lol. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Do you see distinction or do you think distinction?  Does distinction require that a Thought be present?  For example, if I look at my hand without any Thought being present, do I see distinction?

Edited October 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

Everything is a distinction. Seperation does not exist. Just because two things are distinct does not mean they are seperate.

Most of you guys here have no idea yet how profound distinction is. If you were fully conscious of what a distinction is, you would understand all of existence!

@Joseph Maynor Distinction is not a concept!

It is worth your while to seriously contemplate "What is a distinction?" Take your time with this one. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

[Strikr]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything is a distinction. Seperation does not exist. Just because two things are distinct does not mean they are seperate.

Most of you guys here have no idea yet how profound distinction is. If you were fully conscious of what a distinction is, you would understand all of existence!

@Joseph Maynor Distinction is not a concept!

It is worth your while to seriously contemplate "What is a distinction?" Take your time with this one. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

OR makes Art for 20 000 hours :> 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything is a distinction. Seperation does not exist. Just because two things are distinct does not mean they are seperate.

Most of you guys here have no idea yet how profound distinction is. If you were fully conscious of what a distinction is, you would understand all of existence!

@Joseph Maynor Distinction is not a concept!

It is worth your while to seriously contemplate "What is a distinction?" Take your time with this one. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

I’ll investigate this this week in my own experience.  It’s an interesting issue.  Can I see a distinction without a thought being present saying there’s a distinction?  That’s the issue.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything is a distinction. Seperation does not exist. Just because two things are distinct does not mean they are seperate.

Right. Im trying to let this observation fully sink in. 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Do you see distinction or do you think distinction?  Does distinction require that a Thought be present?  For example, if I look at my hand without any Thought being present, do I see distinction?

This is a really interesting question that Im honestly unsure of. 

[Jack River]

Another way to understand the subtly of distinction and it’s tendency to treat distinctions as actually separate is to take this example..

Is the distinction between desire and fear actual? Are they separate? 

Or resistance and attachment..

Or anger and fear

Or identification/attachment/resistance/being fear. 

This is an example of the mechanism of thought and how it forms distinctions. 

This can be observed first hand too dudes. 

Pretty cool. This may give a little hint to what Leo is pointing at. 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Holistic insight sees all distinctions as actually one actuality. To observe the whole of thought, as in awareness, all distinctions dissolve and that awareness sees those distinctions as actually one movement as self. In this awareness dissolves fear/desire/attachment/resistance/psychological time. 

And when all that is not in action then the groovy stuff happens where those distinctions are not made in “experience” any longer. It’s really not an experience. Most excellent.  

Edited October 29, 2018 by Jack River

[Leo Gura]

Distinction is prior to thought.

Thought IS one kind of distinction!

Words cannot get at what distinction is. So even though I am using the word "distinction" here, which comes with the concept of a distinction, that concept is NOT what I am talking about! I mean ACTUAL distinction, not the concept of one.

Of course the concept of a distinction is also a distinction, but it is only one out of many and not what we are ultimately pointing to when we ask "What is a distinction?"

This is where things get very Zen.

If you still think distinction is a thought or a concept, you aren't getting it yet.

[who chit]

Distinction, on the level of no-mind and/or inner stillness/silence, is the refined sensitivity and clearness in perception. Giving way to "clearer,deeper, seeing" that penetrates beyond the gross,surface level of  apparent "things".
Upon awakening, perception automatically becomes more refined,and continues to become more and more refined, as time goes on, which gives one an ability to "see",which, in this context means perceive, deeper/beyond the "apparent" surface of reality.

This refinement,opening of perception/seeing,happens on the level of heart,not mind. It is through this clear,refined "seeing" that oneness/non duality is revealed.

Edited October 29, 2018 by who chit

[Jack River]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Distinction is prior to thought.

Thought IS one kind of distinction!

Words cannot get at what distinction is. So even though I am using the word "distinction" here, which comes with the concept of a distinction, that concept is NOT what I am talking about! I mean ACTUAL distinction, not the concept of one.

Of course the concept of a distinction is also a distinction, but it is only one out of many and not what we are ultimately pointing to when we ask "What is a distinction?"

This is where things get very Zen.

If you still think distinction is a thought or a concept, you aren't getting it yet.

You’re referring to synthetic distinction right? 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

29 minutes ago, who chit said:

Distinction, on the level of no-mind and/or inner stillness/silence, is the refined sensitivity and clearness in perception. Giving way to "clearer,deeper, seeing" that penetrates beyond the gross,surface level of  apparent "things".
Upon awakening, perception automatically becomes more refined,and continues to become more and more refined, as time goes on, which gives one an ability to "see",which, in this context means perceive, deeper/beyond the "apparent" surface of reality.

This refinement,opening of perception/seeing,happens on the level of heart,not mind. It is through this clear,refined "seeing" that oneness/non duality is revealed.

I feel ya man. 

[now is forever]

@omTom is distinction a difference? maybe if you close a door and walk away. but what if you stay in distinction?

Edited October 29, 2018 by now is forever

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Jack River said:

You’re referring to synthetic distinction right? 

No.

"Synthetic" is a distinction.

Any qualification you make will be just another distinction, without getting you any closer to understanding what a distinction is.

[Joseph Maynor]

12 minutes ago, Outer said:

Be without thought.

That would be trying to control reality to your preference.  It sounds good in theory, but it's unsustainable advice.  It's one of those things were I'm likely to say, you go do that yourself first and then come tell us about how that worked out for you.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

I think Leo might be right about distinctions.  There are distinctions that are seen that don't require a Thought to exist.  You can see all kinds of distinctions in your visual field, even without the word distinction or the Thought distinction.  Experience is not of a piece but is broken up into shapes and parts.  Experience is also always changing, which is a kind of distinction too.  One can see that Experience changes while God Awareness stays the same.  That's a distinction.  Experience includes Thought as Thought is a type of Experience.  Seeing the difference between what's actual vs. what's an illusion is a distinction.  The distinction between God Awareness and actual Experience is also a distinction that can be seen.  The difference between the changing and the changeless is also a distinction that can be noticed or seen.  

Edited October 29, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[WelcometoReality]

4 hours ago, Outer said:

Be without thought.

What is it that wants to be without thought?

[RichardY]

Resistance is futile.

[Consilience]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I think Leo might be right about distinctions.  There are distinctions that are seen that don't require a Thought to exist.  You can see all kinds of distinctions in your visual field, even without the word distinction or the Thought distinction.  Experience is not of a piece but is broken up into shapes and parts.  Experience is also always changing, which is a kind of distinction too.  One can see that Experience changes while God Awareness stays the same.  That's a distinction.  Experience includes Thought as Thought is a type of Experience.  Seeing the difference between what's actual vs. what's an illusion is a distinction.  The distinction between God Awareness and actual Experience is also a distinction that can be seen.  The difference between the changing and the changeless is also a distinction that can be noticed or seen.  

And the kicker is that none of this that you describe is separate from itself. It’s all happening simultaneously, in each moment as a collective untit of consciousness. Nothing that’s actual is ever separate from itself.