Offending Weak Insecure Sheep

[Will]

So I was having a conversation with a family member the other day and they mentioned they where not happy about the way I commented about my sisters relationship.. 

I told it how it was.. They looked sad and miserable. So I commented that they looked sad.. offend 

• I want to understand the nature of why we feel compelled to have an opinion and comment..
• I did I feel it so important to comment on there shitty relationship

I felt as though they where not being honest to themselves as people or to each other as a couple..

I guess I did not want to add to that and be fake like everybody else was.. 

• should I have just avoided the comment ..
• should we avoid everything that other feel uncomfortable about, after all it is there right to stay ignorant..

Now that I have been self developing keenly for some time now. I am finding myself less  empathetic for victims.. 

Hey.. if they are open and can see they need to change I have all the time.. but even that has limits..

 

Your persepctives greatly appreciated..

Any stories on what you have done in similar situations??

Rock On!!

[Elton]

yes you should have .. i told my dad and bro that they were not happy , and they don't know what happiness really is then they got really annoyed .Now i realize that we shouldn't make judgments on others ... 

[Will]

• @Elton what is communication? Why should we talk at all??
• Theres a fine line between being an enabler of behaviour and forcing others to do what you want them to do..
• If you partner is engaging in behaviour that is not helping themselves or others. When is it that we should judge it?? i.e a kid that that goes around swearing.. surely thats a judgement too..??

[Elton]

@Will i d k 

[Will]

I guess my point is how do we get people to take responsibility for there own emotions and feelings.. And if they choose not to how do we help them to see there issues are not ours and that we can help them to deal with it but ultimately there own.??

At the end of the day we can ignore all the weak vicitms of the world, it is there right to be like that, but we still have to live in this world with them... hmmmm. difficult.. cos I dont want to sound like I know any better...

No matter how many ways I rephrase this it keeps coming out the same way..

Dont waste any of your precious time or energy on those who choose to be safe secure and stuck in victim mindset..

Edited April 3, 2016 by Will

[Philip]

@Will Your intention towards them was probably pure and noble. I think you should discuss those kinds of problems with the people you love.

Your mistake is in the way you told them. It's a highly inefficient approach (as you may have already noticed), which means it goes totally against your original pure intention.

Instead of explaining them the issue you've noticed or what they could do about it, try and explain them what you feel. If you're sad when you see them, tell them. If you're annoyed, frustrated or impatient about their situation, tell them that. This way of communicating is not only more accurate and truthful, but it is also less aggressive and easier for them to digest.

And in order to be even more truthful and respectful, remember what the real problem is. The problem is more than just their couple. The problem is their couple AND the negative emotion you feel towards it. And I hope you're open-minded enough to see you don't really actually know which part of this is the most problematic. Are they more wrong for being together ? Or are you more wrong for over-reacting to it ? 

There is always a slight possibility of you being the one who's not developed enough to emotionally accept the situation. No matter why or how that could be, it is ALWAYS a possibility to consider. And integrating that sense of doubt and open-mindedness to your conversation will greatly improve the curative impact your words have on the people you love.

At first, it might feel like you're being dishonest to them, but if you really are open-minded and you also really love them, then this approach is probably the closest you can get to honesty and integrity in your communication. 

[Leo Gura]

You gotta strike a delicate balance. Most times, let people be how they are and focus on growing yourself. But sometimes you need to give people a poke too. And if that ruffles some feathers, oh well. Part of your growth should include not being so sensitive about how other people react when you talk about personal development topics with them. Most people will react defensively or negatively. And that's their issue to deal with, so long as you don't provoke them in an egotistical sort of way, or as a distraction from doing your own inner work.

Changing people who aren't ready to change is a tough business.

[charlie2dogs]

12 hours ago, Will said:

So I was having a conversation with a family member the other day and they mentioned they where not happy about the way I commented about my sisters relationship.. 

I told it how it was.. They looked sad and miserable. So I commented that they looked sad.. offend 

• I did I feel it so important to comment on there shitty relationship

I felt as though they where not being honest to themselves as people or to each other as a couple..

I guess I did not want to add to that and be fake like everybody else was.. 

• should I have just avoided the comment ..
• should we avoid everything that other feel uncomfortable about, after all it is there right to stay ignorant..

Now that I have been self developing keenly for some time now. I am finding myself less  empathetic for victims.. 

Hey.. if they are open and can see they need to change I have all the time.. but even that has limits..

 

Your persepctives greatly appreciated..

Any stories on what you have done in similar situations??

Rock On!!

My first question is are you really qualified to help those folks, what you said in your mail sound like the identity and ego speaking, and may do more harm than good. You said: I want to understand the nature of why we feel compelled to have an opinion and comment.. the answer to that is ego pure and simple unless you are doing it from the right state of being and for the right purpose and the right way.  How can you expect them to understand where you are coming from, are you expecting more from them than they are able to give?  Are you setting the right example of living before them to see?  Forcing your opinions on others wont help them to grow, it will only cause resentment and division.

You said: I did I feel it so important to comment on there shitty relationship, is it really important for you see your sisters relationship as shitty, and point that out to her in a way that hurts her rather then helps her, and expecting her to be something that she isnt and may can not be at this time. Do you think hurting people will wake them up or help them? it wont trust me, i learned it the hard way.

What you did was create more problems, now if you want to help, help yourself first, then with the right attitude and intention you may be able to help your sister, that is if she needs your help at all, i have yet to hear her side of the story.  Can you hear what im saying to you.  I'm hoping you can see the reality of this message to you because its important to your own personal growth.

[Leo Gura]

@Socrates Hahaha

I like the contrast of that to this depiction of stage Orange mentality

 

[Will]

On 03/04/2016 at 1:21 PM, Philip said:

Instead of explaining them the issue you've noticed or what they could do about it, try and explain them what you feel. If you're sad when you see them, tell them. If you're annoyed, frustrated or impatient about their situation, tell them that. This way of communicating is not only more accurate and truthful, but it is also less aggressive and easier for them to digest.

• yeah I like that. I guess I have learnt to say what I think rather than what I feel
• I guess it also does not matter to them what I feel really, unless of course they ask.. i will refrain unless asked from now on.. none of my bussiness. Its hard cos I have been programmed for a long time to tell people how it is.. I now realise its pointless.. If I am kickass they will one day come to me for advice..
• The communicating with feelings is relatively new to me and something i want to dig into further.. cheers for that.. 

 

[Will]

On 03/04/2016 at 1:21 PM, Philip said:

. The problem is their couple AND the negative emotion you feel towards it. And I hope you're open-minded enough to see you don't really actually know which part of this is the most problematic. Are they more wrong for being together ? Or are you more wrong for over-reacting to it ? 

I am just identifying in them what I have done in the past.. Kinda like when you see something in yourself you start to see it everywhere.. My mistake is telling them.. they dont need to know.. Thats their life.. My initial instinct was to warn them. But I know better now.. I am happy I can see it.. And I will leave it at that..

[Philip]

3 minutes ago, Will said:

I guess it also does not matter to them what I feel really, unless of course they ask.. i will refrain unless asked from now on.. none of my bussiness. Its hard cos I have been programmed for a long time to tell people how it is.. I now realise its pointless..

What you feel may or may not matter to them. Their situation may or may not be of your business. Telling them how it is may or may not be pointless. I'm glad that you care about what they feel and that you're able to question your own behavior. That's great !

And don't forget that the main goal of sharing your emotions is not about the other person.

It's about you.

It's about getting in touch with your emotions.

It's about knowing yourself.

It's about feeling good about yourself because you speak authentically.

It's about being vulnerable to them.

It's about accepting the feelings that arise inside of you, no matter how "unhealthy" they might be.

But most importantly...

It's about your alignment with truth.

Please don't forget that.

[Will]

On 03/04/2016 at 1:21 PM, Philip said:

There is always a slight possibility of you being the one who's not developed enough to emotionally accept the situation. No matter why or how that could be, it is ALWAYS a possibility to consider. And integrating that sense of doubt and open-mindedness to your conversation will greatly improve the curative impact your words have on the people you love.

I love doubt and open mindedness.. I love that sense that the more I learn the more I really have no idea of how things are.. a sense of wonder and intrigue is becoming predominant..

 

[Will]

@Nickfury7 I think I should just not say anything at all.. I dont want to come across like i know any better.. it really is there life.. Next time I will just smile to myself  and move on..

 

[Will]

On 03/04/2016 at 1:45 PM, Leo Gura said:

give people a poke too

Yeah , but I think only if they are really willing.. I guess if I become awesome enough they will wanna emulate..

 

On 03/04/2016 at 2:26 PM, Socrates said:

There a good video by Mr Gura on this called how to grow by exploiting people. 

Yeah I like this one.. I guess what I did not get,,is that I dont have to intervene to get the benefit.. I only need to reflect on how it makes me feel and learn from it that way.. That has now sunk in..

 

20 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

My first question is are you really qualified to help those folks

Oh , yes I totally agree with you.. its not a matter of qualified.. There life is there's alone.. I have learnt now it has nothing to do with me.. I was curious to investigate why I felt compelled but i think I have worked out now its not necessary..

 

[Will]

@Socrates

20 hours ago, Socrates said:

I think personally this is the attitude of a developed person. 

Yep nailed it.. I have no interest in imposing my perspective any more.. I actually like the idea of protecting their desire to stay sheep..

Obviously i dont want to identify and a wise and strong lion and others as lowly weak sheep.. I guess that label is not required either.. 

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I like the contrast of that to this depiction of stage Orange mentality

This is not so clear to me.. the above one was pretty obvious.. I am not actually very sure what is going on here.. Is that guy foolishly atacking the lion or is he sacrificing himself for the good of others..  I guess stage orange in spiral dynamics is the lions of the world devour all in there path. forcing their dominance ?? 

Beautiful piece though

[Isle of View]

@Will

regarding your OP.

When we grow spiritually all kinds of disharmonies and non-necessities will become obvious to us. 
You need to learn to accept and deal accordingly with the craziness of what you encounter from the realm of your newly found clarity.

Clarity without empathy can be a very deadly mix, as you have seen when your family members got bewildered by your suggestions.

Realize (or keep in mind)  that they don't see what you see from the position from where they look at things. 

Of course it's your good right to act like that -- if you're willing to face up to and experience the consequences of your expression.
But the fact that you're asking here for perspectives shows me that you really are not that comfortable with what has just emerged between you and the other family member.

I hope this is of some use...

~Chris

[abrakamowse]

People don't like reality checks. So, their best protection is to be "offended". But, there's no one to be offended, so... it's pointless.

[Will]

9 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

Clarity without empathy

I do empathise, of course i want the best for them. but i also realise its there own path.. Is that what you mean??

 

11 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

You need to learn to accept and deal accordingly

Such as? I imagine I just need to acknowledge and continue on..??

 

13 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

Of course it's your good right to act like that

Is it?? Why would I feel like I know better than they??

 

14 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

But the fact that you're asking here for perspectives shows me that you really are not that comfortable with what has just emerged between you and the other family member.

?? Not sure what you mean here.. 

Cheers.. I love it when I dont get things.. shows I am about to learn something..

[Philip]

19 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

But, there's no one to be offended, so... it's pointless.

You know what I think is pointless ? Posting enlightenment level notions in a conversation that is clearly operating at a lower level than that. There's already a whole forum section for talking about enlightenment. No need to make it spill out into conversations where it clearly doesn't belong.

And sorry for ranting against you. You're not the only one, nor the worse. And I usually like your input, but please try to read the atmosphere and get attuned to it. Your comments will probably be more relevant and helpful.