What if after all spiritual work,

[non_nothing]

Religion was the truth and there's one god separated from, you and you're all fucked up your mental capabilities with this no-self and enlightenment bullshit because that was just yet another ego's distraction of mind. This was a test before transitioning to heaven and hell. And whatever the reason that creature exists and punishes you for no reason. It's its play. Who the F are you he'd tell you. He'd laugh about you.

[Recursoinominado]

My reaction would be: 

Reality is really mind-blowing all the time, especially when you think you got something figured out. 

[PsiloPutty]

I'd be like "well fuck I didn't see that one coming....."

[seeking_brilliance]

To sit here and tell you any different would be pushing indoctrination onto you, right? Even if you have direct experience of no-self, or being one with universe, how can you trust its not just placebo effect? Just daydreaming. 

Are you having doubts or is this just for fun? 

[Arkandeus]

Fear shows yet another one of its faces  

I listen, I accept, I die, I birth

[non_nothing]

You guys are amazing. Your posts are made my day really.

Quote

 

To sit here and tell you any different would be pushing indoctrination onto you, right? Even if you have direct experience of no-self, or being one with universe, how can you trust its not just placebo effect? Just daydreaming. 

Are you having doubts or is this just for fun? 

 

For fun, even if that's the fact that I doubt, how would I avoid it already. Like full surrender. I'm fully surrendered already to whatever is whatever and I am not responsible for anything. As much as I am nothing really. A weird pulse within experience of consciousness. A different face and mask.

Edited October 24, 2018 by non_nothing

[SgtPepper]

4 hours ago, non_nothing said:

Religion was the truth and there's one god separated from, you and you're all fucked up your mental capabilities with this no-self and enlightenment bullshit because that was just yet another ego's distraction of mind. This was a test before transitioning to heaven and hell. And whatever the reason that creature exists and punishes you for no reason. It's its play. Who the F are you he'd tell you. He'd laugh about you.

well "You" are separate from God. that's the whole point about being "you". You want separation from the infinity, but deep awareness will show "you" are actually not separate.

how is becoming more aware of the body and what you are without thoughts, ego distraction? Thinking is literally ego distraction because it biased and highly connected to the sense of self, your mind has built.

 

[seeking_brilliance]

@non_nothing im struggling right now with even trusting direct experience, much less what I hear from others. I think the best answer is we just don't know.

It would definitely suck if your proposed scenario were true, but sucking is relative, right? From the view of this being who tortures us for fun, it didn't suck, it was fun. And to that being, our opinions wouldn't matter, as long as it had fun right? 

[non_nothing]

3 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@non_nothing im struggling right now with even trusting direct experience, much less what I hear from others. I think the best answer is we just don't know.

It would definitely suck if your proposed scenario were true, but sucking is relative, right? From the view of this being who tortures us for fun, it didn't suck, it was fun. And to that being, our opinions wouldn't matter, as long as it had fun right? 

What's your fear? Really lets just think about for it. What's the fear?

 

What is suffering? What is pain? Let's think about it. Before reading my answer in small font, let's honor your experience and at least let yourself to think and contemplate for your own answer for 3 minutes. Really, set a timer, google 3 minute countdown and think about for your own answer.

The dilemma is if there's never ending suffering, how would you tell it when it had begun? If it hadn't had an end i.e as same as in our human lifes, pain comes pain goes, if there was never ending suffering how would you tell when it did begin at the first place? I mean this paradox is enough that there cannot be constant pain, It's like taking derivative of something and constants are gone. Because simply they're cannot depend on independent value.

[DrewNows]

oh no...not a 'what if'!  

THEN WHAT HUH?!

Truth does not arise from thought...but sure we can all wish it did

Religions are pointers with stories and ideas. We don't have to play them games but we can 

[seeking_brilliance]

@non_nothing ok, I'll do as you ask when I get home from work. But just to clarify, do you mean what is the fear of trusting direct experience? Or just basic fear? 

[SgtPepper]

47 minutes ago, seeking_brilliance said:

@non_nothing im struggling right now with even trusting direct experience, much less what I hear from others. I think the best answer is we just don't know.

It would definitely suck if your proposed scenario were true, but sucking is relative, right? From the view of this being who tortures us for fun, it didn't suck, it was fun. And to that being, our opinions wouldn't matter, as long as it had fun right? 

I think its good to enter that confused state, its a sign that you are open to something more than what you currently know.

In honestly, all we know is direct experience. That is Truth as far as truth can be truth. 

[seeking_brilliance]

@SgtPepper just part of the journey, I guess. Hopefully a small part ?

[seeking_brilliance]

2 hours ago, non_nothing said:

What is suffering? What is pain? Let's think about it. Before reading my answer in small font, let's honor your experience and at least let yourself to think and contemplate for your own answer for 3 minutes. Really, set a timer, google 3 minute countdown and think about for your own answer.

I have to admit, I didn't do exactly as asked, and instead I set the stopwatch and spent 35 minutes in total. Here's what I wrote in my notebook :

----------___--------------¯¯¯---------------___-----------

     What's my fear? Or in other words, what fear arises from ego?

     Well, of course there is the popular one: pain / suffering.

     I suppose I also fear missing out on something. Being late to the party,  so to speak. I fear I won't even make it to the party. I'm sure somewhere down there I have a fear of dying, even though I've convinced myself otherwise. I also think I have no fear of losing myself, but it's possible it's hiding somewhere very sneakily. I fear being mocked, although I've convinced myself I can handle it. I fear not being liked, largely in part to years of being bullied. I have forgiven the bullying, but the fear remains. I have forgiven the ego, but the fear remains.

     But truth be told, I don't even know what fear is. A strong emotional response/feeling, sure. But is that all it is? An elixir of chemicals which flood body, and nothing more? A prison warden who turned out to be a cardboard cutout? Like really, what is fear? Does fear exist outside the body which "feels" it? I don't even know what "to feel" even means. Not fully. I have a rough idea of it based on my upbringing but I couldn't truly tell you what feeling is, who or what feels, or if it's just another figment of imagination.

     So those are the fears of ego, and I'm sure not even a tenth of them.

    You asked: what is pain and suffering?

     Once again, what the hell do I know? From this one's head, pain can be both (or individually) physical and emotional. Physical pain causes much suffering, even though this one I'm pretty sure of is  no more than a rush of signals and chemicals to the brain. To live pain-free is many people's desire. Look at all the opiate addicts.

     But I don't necessarily believe pain is bad. Pain is necessary for survival of the body. It would be nice to have  direct control over the level of pain, as when say, you break your leg and have already had it set. It is important to feel some pain as a reminder, so one doesn't step off the bed and try to do jumping jacks on it. Such a thing would not ensure survival of species. But it sure would be nice to turn it down to a low hum, since such a (for lack of better word) painful reminder is no longer needed. I digress, but to sum up, physical pain is an evolutionary asset to the body of most animals, to ensure survival of species. Ego fears it because... well, it hurts. It doesn't feel good. Ego wants to feel good, so it has developed an irrational fear of it to prevent pain from happening. 

     And yet, I think emotional pain could be worse in some ways. But I'm well over my 3 minutes and this one would take a while to unpack. Perhaps I will do it in the journal section.

--------------—--------------—-------------—--------

Ok, I read your words in small print. No I don't believe in religion's hell and had a huge problem with the whole eternal pain and suffering of hell, even back when I was a good little Christian soldier going around trying to save people from it.  Pain comes and goes, this is true. This at least I can trust my direct experience of because I am glad to not be in constant pain. 

[Hellspeed]

Well, I don't see that possibility  I already know that the possibility is impossible on that specific matter. 

[Joseph Maynor]

You have to get to the point where you can see and catch your own bullshit.  Now, be careful with this statement because it sounds pithy and you might agree with it.  But this is not a belief or a statement, this is a practice.

You have to get to the point where you can actually see and actually catch your own bullshit.  And you can do this more and more the higher consciousness you become.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[non_nothing]

10 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

     I suppose I also fear missing out on something. Being late to the party,  so to speak. I fear I won't even make it to the party. I'm sure somewhere down there I have a fear of dying, even though I've convinced myself otherwise. I also think I have no fear of losing myself, but it's possible it's hiding somewhere very sneakily. I fear being mocked, although I've convinced myself I can handle it. I fear not being liked, largely in part to years of being bullied. I have forgiven the bullying, but the fear remains. I have forgiven the ego, but the fear remains.

I had very similar fears. I had almost exact fears. Losing myself, mind, going crazy. Dying into void. 

It's been very surprising for me to see that we had a lot experience in past that are also similar. 

 

If you agree that this silly statement that: I'm somewhere between you and future you, (which pardon my excuse) I'd say to you, it WILL be resolved by time. And you'll find ANSWERS to your fears. Until now the best thing I'd wish for you is to STAY GROUNDED. 

 

10 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

     But truth be told, I don't even know what fear is. A strong emotional response/feeling, sure. But is that all it is? An elixir of chemicals which flood body, and nothing more? A prison warden who turned out to be a cardboard cutout? Like really, what is fear? Does fear exist outside the body which "feels" it? I don't even know what "to feel" even means. Not fully. I have a rough idea of it based on my upbringing but I couldn't truly tell you what feeling is, who or what feels, or if it's just another figment of imagination.

Very good, very,very good. I'd say keep thinking about it this is a nice starting point. But one hint would be: Don't just blindly rush for "It doesn't exist" It does exist in your reality right now and the fact is it is very real for you. " Don't ignore it. This is a very yellow, golden shining key that I'm presenting you. First you have to fully embrace it, cup it get to know of shape of it. Hold the key.

 

10 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

 So those are the fears of ego, and I'm sure not even a tenth of them.

As like I told, ego is you for now. You experience it. Don't run away.

 

10 hours ago, seeking_brilliance said:

But I don't necessarily believe pain is bad. Pain is necessary for survival of the body. It would be nice to have  direct control over the level of pain, as when say, you break your leg and have already had it set. It is important to feel some pain as a reminder,

I can't really remember where but recently I've read somewhere the same thing you're describing which is: Pain and suffering is necessary for us to know about something is wrong. It's like a toddler is always happy unless his underwears are wet and signals to brain for uncomfortiness, then he cries. But without these things, he's very happy at his natural state. Like imagine even back in war at the refugee camps, adults are full of fear in their faces but children in the background are able to play with stone and dirt in their face even how hard the situation is. This the last example is very powerful to contemplate on.

Hail

[Charlotte]

I'd be like "Well fuck me sideways and call me Keith, I DID NOT see this coming." 

[Elysian]

1) my short time with enlightenement only enhanced my capabilities, it sort of felt like the movie Limitless. If anything I think I would be more likely to realize a Divine path

2) Something I contemplated for a long time was what the view of a separate, conscious, omniscient God would be of a being like me. If that being created this body and mind, it would be very aware of it's limitations and tendencies. After all, it would have created me to be inquisitive, skeptical, and mistake riddled. If even still it was simply masochistic, and made us this way for it's enjoyment as we suffer... I suppose I'm grateful for the opportunity to have gotten to experience anything at all. Even if God needs to take a chill pill.

[cetus]

It's all a dream we dreamed one afternoon.