At Which Spiral Stage Would You Say Subtle and Nuanced Thinking Emerges?

[Joseph Maynor]

• Orange
• Green
• Yellow
• Turquoise
• Coral

Please give reasons to support your conclusion.  Preferably your own take that comes from your own life experience.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Bluff]

yellow

because of the transformation of egoic thinking to actually seeing the truth

[7thLetter]

@Joseph Maynor Yellow, because of their overall bigger picture understanding.

In my own take on it, this is when the individual starts to let go of assumptions and takes everything into consideration. Generally speaking, most people are quick to judge someone and say they’re incompetent, or lazy, for example, without putting every single possibility into the perspective. Maybe he’s not lazy, maybe he’s just in a bad mood or recently got out of depression. Maybe he’s still getting comfortable with the enivronment. Maybe he’s too stuck in his head. Maybe a family member passed. Personally I’d say if the specific behavior persists for several months, then you can come to some sort of conclusion about that person, rather than judging within’ the first month. And this doesn’t just happen with assumptions about other people, but about life, about different situations, about almost everything. So with this type of thinking, its quite rare for them to get angry or reactive towards someone or some thing.

Another thing to add is their interest in connecting the dots. Sometimes even unecessarily doing so. “So we’re the supplier for several companies selling at this price, let me figure out the buyer’s profit potential on this order.” But why, you’re just an employee who gets paid hourly.. Even better example, connecting the dots on how an individual is mentally conditioned into being the way that they are. Growing up in a certain environment, around specific people, what they spent most of their time doing, what they fed their mind with, etc. So I would sort of imagine most Yellow people have at least some interest in psychology, because to me, psychology seems like its mainly about observing and connecting the dots when it comes to certain human behaviors. How does one develop this kind of mental disorder? Well, this, this, and this occurs and that is the end result.

[Consilience]

Orange.

Taking logic and rationality to its fullest extent requires a subtle and nuanced mind, at least that was my experience back when I was caught up in stage orange. You cant excel at subjects like philosophy, math, engineering without being able to think incredibly logically, even before systems thinking comes into play, but often times these subjects have very subtle/nuanced details utilizing various forms of logic and or rationality. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Here's the crazy thing guys --  I was thinking about this too this week and I can't really decide between Orange, Green, and Yellow.  I'm still thinking about it and considering different angles about it.  When I come to some kind of settled land, I will post my answer on here too.  I think there might be facets in the sense that Orange develops a certain facet of subtle and nuanced thinking; and then Green, and then Yellow introduce their own facets so it kind of builds.  Or maybe, alternatively, the answer is more solidly one color like Yellow.  But see the question is how does Yellow's nuanced thinking compare and contrast with Green's?  How does Green's nuanced thinking compare and contrast with Orange's?  How does Yellow's nuanced thinking compare and contrast with Orange's?  This requires a lot of gathering together all of your experiences of people at these stages.  That's why it's taking me a while to come to some kind of a conclusion that isn't just some off the cuff conclusory statement, but rather has some meat behind it, at least on my end.  And I actually think the best kind of analysis here would be to trace this issue from Red to Coral.  That's what I'm going to try to do in my answer.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Artaemis]

It seems like nuanced thinking might begin to emerge at orange. There is a sharp incline. I'm not 100% sure, I don't know a lot about spiral dynamics.

Here's my general brief analysis of Orange and then maybe it can help you decide. I like to analyze by visuals and feeling tones a lot:

Many have eyes that are piercing, alert. Their demeanor is calculated and deliberate. They seem capable of reading motives but their judgments are usually relatively shallow still, which can surprise me.  They seem very capable and sharp, and yet they can't really pin you down properly. They spend more time trying to appear correct, dominant or attractive than piercing the rest of the way through. It holds them back. They're afraid of pain I think. Green upward are much less afraid of pain. Pain tolerance is a big factor in someone's ability to come to nuanced judgments. Making blatant or dismissive judgments with a persona of dominance is a lot more comfortable than attempting intimate, honest, nuanced communication.  

Edited October 27, 2018 by Artaemis

[Shin]

[Staples]

@Joseph Maynor High Orange. That's when it emerges of course, it finally fully develops at yellow.

[Key Elements]

You forgot blue. A person could stay really stuck in orange without any boundaries (esp in relationships, for example, before it happens). A person may not be able to say, "Enough is enough! This person is about to overstep my boundaries." Looks like a person doesn't have any red flags or underdelveloped red flags skipping through this stage. A person did not really think it through why others have certain boundaries different than his/her own. The person just pass it off as "conservative" / "traditional." Orange is too much of a distraction without a few boundaries. 

If you get into a situation where you hurt yourself from the very beginning just because you didn't "do as you were told," you "paint yourself to a corner." So, just because of this one moment of not listening to someone without much thought to it, you suffer throughout your life. You didn't bother to protect yourself from day 1.

[Torkys]

*reads the title without noticing the topic starter*

*hmm sure @Joseph Maynor is going to be the first to answer with an essay about this*

*notices that he started the topic and that he can't decide*

Me:

@Shin ???

My answer is Yellow because being able to entertain multiple perspectives makes you truly nuanced. Every Tier I stage has an ideology and is not completely open - although going up the spiral makes you "loosen up" more and more so there is no clear way to decide.

[Consilience]

Ideologies can require very nuanced thinking though, even if ultimately false 

[Joseph Maynor]

Ok.  Lemme try to give an answer here.  I might do another one of these later too just to see if I can get at a different angle on each Spiral Stage.

Red -- look at Donald Trump and how he talks.  Is that subtle and nuanced thinking?  Red is into manipulation, so the extent to which they will be subtle and nuanced is the extent that they get something from doing it.  They're not gonna be subtle and nuanced as a value held for some higher purpose.

Blue -- Blue can be subtle and nuanced.  Look at how subtle and nuanced religions can be and how subtle and nuanced law is.  What Blue lacks is a kind of nuance that comes from skepticism and from considering other perspectives from an impartial point of view.  Blue will rarely qualify their beliefs with nuance and usually prefers black and white thinking.  

Orange -- Orange can be subtle and nuanced.  Orange has a skepticism that Blue lacks which enables Orange to admit that they might be wrong and to want to cross-reference information in order to get a sanity check on their own beliefs.  Orange doesn't really see the value in Philosophical questioning though.  Consideration of other people's perspectives is also tough for Orange.

Green -- Green can be subtle and nuanced.  Green is where you start to get a certain modesty emerging about beliefs and knowing.  Green appreciates Philosophical questioning and also values and considers other perspectives.  Green can be subtle and nuanced, but tends to have a weak spot for their own moral ideology.  Green is not subtle and nuanced on issues they think are "wrong" or "evil".

Yellow -- Yellow can be subtle and nuanced.  Yellow loses the morality of Green and sees the world as a set of competing systems that all have their own unique view of reality and that all have an Egoic interest in preserving that view of reality.  Yellow will often talk about problems in terms of different affects that change will have on the network of systems being impacted by that input. 

Turquoise -- Turquoise can be subtle and nuanced.  Turquoise realizes that all perspectives are one, yet different at the same time.  Turquoise realizes that problems only make sense when tailored to a particular perspective.  So, Turquoise is very subtle and nuanced with what they say because they realize that one-sized-fits-all advice doesn't cut it.

Coral -- Coral can be subtle and nuanced.  Coral realizes that sloppiness with Metaphysics is what causes ignorance and Ego.  Coral is very subtle and nuanced about identifying the actual vs. the illusion in reality.  Most people don't do this, but Coral is engaged with this.  Coral is breaking down the illusion of reality like a keen observer breaks down the illusion of a magic trick.

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Joseph Maynor