Leo Debunked

[Speedscarlet]

When I watch Leo, I see how he can easily debunk many other spiritual teachers for their close-mindedness, because he is very integrative. He also can easily find many faults in other stage orange or blue speakers and scientists. 

Now, think about what could happen maybe 1000 years from now. Another highly conscious person will come up and debunk Leo for all the unconsciousness he speaks, and how he has made many mistakes and blunders in his channel. Technically, that has to be possible, because in relative truth anything is possible. 

It’s hard to think that anybody could throw off the entire channel of Actualized.org as completely unconscious and misleading, just like Leo would throw off the entire Alex Jones show as completely unconscious. But it is possible, because the ‘consciousness’ of a person is relative. Just as Alex Jones looks extremely unconscious to us, Actualized.org could look completely unconscious to people 1000 years from now.

So the question is, what do you think those people would pick out from Actualized.org as completely unconscious? I think this is a very useful question to think about, so we could carry on improving this channel. 

[Shin]

I don't think it's possible, since Leo said in several videos that you can never know if you're self deceiving yourself or that if you're locked into a paradigm.

He even asked Peter Ralston if enlightenment wasn't a paradigm and that in theory you can't know if there is more.

It's basically admitting everything you say might be untrue.

Can't be wiser than that ?

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Shin

[Milos Uzelac]

Can you speak or even conceptualize about a hypothetical critique a 1000 year ahead sage would have of this channel. I find I would be speaking from my perspective again only tossing around whataboutisms. I find I can only talk what I imagine I could in my mind improve myself about this channel. If its about future abilities and learning I find I would be only imagining a superhero compared to a normal human which I don-t know if relevant for this topic.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Milos Uzelac

[Forestluv]

It's all a dream. Of course the dream will change. That's why it's silly for people to identify with concepts and believe ideas are True. Humans are obsessed with a desire to feel grounded.

 

[Speedscarlet]

@Shin I’m not saying that there will ever be something beyond enlightenment. There can’t. But I’m talking about the domain of ‘relative truth’. All the topics that Leo talks about, and his videos could all be just as unconscious and blunderous 1000 years from now, as Alex Jones is to us right now. 

This possibility is part of enlightenment. There is no distinction even in conciousness. 

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Speedscarlet said:

Now, think about what could happen maybe 1000 years from now. Another highly conscious person will come up and debunk Leo for all the unconsciousness he speaks, and how he has made many mistakes and blunders in his channel. Technically, that has to be possible, because in relative truth anything is possible. 

are you not trying to debunk him?  he even debunks himself. so how to debunk debunkers?

1000years from now who knows if this data will still exist or if there will even be history books about this. so how could anybody debunk it.

soorrry i know you try to do speculative „science“.

so a thousand years from now what do you think society might look like - either up or down the spiral? or can it develope outside of the spiral - will there be something we can’t even imagine, completely outside of the spiral?

will there be books? will we still have technology? will we go back to the woods? will we still exist to check if our predictions where right? 

the utopy of today might be the dystopy of tomorrow or the dystopy of today might be the utopy of tomorrow. it wouldn’t be the first time.

Edited October 23, 2018 by now is forever

[Tony 845]

Leo has also said on numerous occasions, don't take my word for it, it will only hurt you, donthe work yourself.

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Shin said:

I don't think it's possible, since Leo said in several videos that you can never know if you're self deceiving yourself or that if you're locked into a paradigm.

He even asked Peter Ralston if enlightenment wasn't a paradigm and that in theory you can't know if there is more.

It's basically admitting everything you say might be untrue.

Can't be wiser than that ?

 

You very much can know if you're deceiving yourself or if you're locked in a paradigm.  I've been preaching about this for months now.  In fact you saying you can never know — that is you clinging to a Thought.  Seeing through the illusion of Maya just is you seeing exactly how you're deceiving yourself.  Be careful with clinging to "you can never know this or that" statements.  Those statements are Thoughts.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You very much can know if you're deceiving yourself or if you're locked in a paradigm.  I've been preaching about this form months now.  In fact you saying you can never know that is you clinging to a Thought.  Seeing through the illusion of Maya just is you seeing exactly how you're deceiving yourself.  Be careful with clinging to "you can never know this or that" statements.  Those statements are Thoughts.

And how do you know that isn’t a paradigm?

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Shin said:

It's basically admitting everything you say might be untrue.

Very nice.

Buddhists call that being free from all attachment. 

I think it’s so cool how the same awakening is expressed differently in the various spiritual practices.

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

And how do you know that isn’t a paradigm?

Good question.  Because what's actual is not a paradigm.  That's the kicker.  What is actually there in Experience and Thought is not a paradigm.  Paradigms are thought-stories.  There's an actual aspect to paradigms to the extent that bits of Thought are actual in Experience.  But what Thoughts say is a paradigm.  The voice of thoughts, the mouth of thoughts is a paradigm.  That's where you start getting meaning and language involved.  But being aware of what's actual in Experience in the moment has nothing to do with thought-stories.  In fact there may not even be a Thought in your Awareness.  For example, when you look at "your hand" there may not even be a single thought-story in your Awareness.  Green and Turquoise cling too hard to this idea that everything is a paradigm -- which is simply a thought-story being laid on top of what's actual.  Plus it's a limiting belief too.  You're never gonna find what's actual if you're clinging to the Thought that "everything is a paradigm".  You're not going to even consider as a possibility the fact that what's actual is not a paradigm.  I see so many people on the Path being trapped by this limiting belief that Thought is somehow at the essence of everything and more or less touches everything.  No it doesn't.  And you can experience this for yourself if you become very literal minded and pay attention to what's actual versus what's augmented by Thought in the moment.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Saumaya]

@Speedscarlet In the enlightenment sense, its not possible. Non duality is the negation of duality, which reveals the truth. Truth never changes. Thats why its called Absolute Truth. There are no degrees of enlightenment, to say that would be to say there are degrees to Absolute Truth. I think passing away of the passing away is the highest stage of development. After that, as jed mckenna says, it only becomes about human adulthood, or being more better attuned to the world.

But there could always be better way of articulating concepts that could lead to awakening, or anything really. But as far as debunking goes, Leo talks about Non Duality. So you one will not be debunking Leo, but really this sage from thousand years will be debunking Non duality; Which is not possible, because as I said, Truth never changes.

It is possible however that degree of understanding and articulation will be much better for relative truths later on. Hell, it is a guarantee they will be.  

Edited October 24, 2018 by Saumaya

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Good question.  Because what's actual is not a paradigm.  That's the kicker.  What is actually there in Experience and Thought is not a paradigm.  Paradigms are thought-stories.  There's an actual aspect to paradigms to the extent that bits of Thought are actual in Experience.  But what Thoughts say is a paradigm.  The voice of thoughts, the mouth of thoughts is a paradigm.  That's where you start getting meaning and language involved.  But being aware of what's actual in Experience in the moment has nothing to do with thought-stories.  In fact there may not even be a Thought in your Awareness.  For example, when you look at "your hand" there may not even be a single thought-story in your Awareness.  Green and Turquoise cling too hard to this idea that everything is a paradigm -- which is simply a thought-story being laid on top of what's actual.  Plus it's a limiting belief too.  You're never gonna find what's actual if you're clinging to the Thought that "everything is a paradigm".  You're not going to even consider as a possibility the fact that what's actual is not a paradigm.  I see so many people on the Path being trapped by this limiting belief that Thought is somehow at the essence of everything and more or less touches everything.  No it doesn't.  And you can experience this for yourself if you become very literal minded and pay attention to what's actual versus what's augmented by Thought in the moment.

Really great explanation. 

 

[now is forever]

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Good question.  Because what's actual is not a paradigm.  That's the kicker.  What is actually there in Experience and Thought is not a paradigm.  Paradigms are thought-stories.  There's an actual aspect to paradigms to the extent that bits of Thought are actual in Experience.  But what Thoughts say is a paradigm.  The voice of thoughts, the mouth of thoughts is a paradigm.  That's where you start getting meaning and language involved.  But being aware of what's actual in Experience in the moment has nothing to do with thought-stories.  In fact there may not even be a Thought in your Awareness.  For example, when you look at "your hand" there may not even be a single thought-story in your Awareness.  Green and Turquoise cling too hard to this idea that everything is a paradigm -- which is simply a thought-story being laid on top of what's actual.  Plus it's a limiting belief too.  You're never gonna find what's actual if you're clinging to the Thought that "everything is a paradigm".  You're not going to even consider as a possibility the fact that what's actual is not a paradigm.  I see so many people on the Path being trapped by this limiting belief that Thought is somehow at the essence of everything and more or less touches everything.  No it doesn't.  And you can experience this for yourself if you become very literal minded and pay attention to what's actual versus what's augmented by Thought in the moment.

very touching joseph, i became so literal, i wrote every word into my journal, as a reminder. 

realtopies of today become realtopies of tomorrow animated by utopies and dystopies for the future if your heart touches the mind through the now.

Edited October 24, 2018 by now is forever

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Saumaya said:

@Speedscarlet In the enlightenment sense, its not possible. Non duality is the negation of duality, which reveals the truth. Truth never changes. Thats why its called Absolute Truth. There are no degrees of enlightenment, to say that would be to say there are degrees to Absolute Truth. I think passing away of the passing away is the highest stage of development. After that, as jed mckenna says, it only becomes about human adulthood, or being more better attuned to the world.

But there could always be better way of articulating concepts that could lead to awakening, or anything really. But as far as debunking goes, Leo talks about Non Duality. So you one will not be debunking Leo, but really this sage from thousand years will be debunking Non duality; Which is not possible, because as I said, Truth never changes.

It is possible however that degree of understanding and articulation will be much better for relative truths later on. Hell, it is a guarantee they will be.  

Isn't how people get delusioned and think they have the Truth when they in fact only have one facet of it (if any) ?

Not knowing or imagining anything/putting a limit about it seems more effective than picturing it as the ultimate Truth if you're not there imo.

[Salvijus]

There's nothing to debunk if he says I don't know anything I'm just assuming this is the right way and these are the reasons why I think that.

Tho sometimes he forgets this humility and starts giving advises with a big "I KNOW" authority. Everything he utters smth with this confidence in his voice, in the future will be thrown out the window Because the truth is the doesn't know. That is where all the ignorance and unawereness is lying around for all of us here.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Salvijus

[now is forever]

@Salvijus yes but you don’t know either.

[Salvijus]

Thank you @now is forever

[Arkandeus]

Welcome to infinity, there will always be someone that is better, someone that knows more  

Because life is consciousness, energy rising to infinity, there always be higher energy and lower energy  

So how do you navigate? Do you keep trying to go to "the best", the most "perfect method"?  Do you try to find the "best teacher"?  

Or is it possible to navigate life without judgement  

The desire for a perfect teacher is the desire to stop being conscious of what you absorb, to absorb blindly without filter, without feeling or thinking  

It is that pull to unconsciousness, to go to sleep again  

 

It is never over

 when one realizes that there is no resting place, no destination, one becomes fully awake

Edited October 24, 2018 by Arkandeus

[now is forever]

@Arkandeus is there no destination? enlightenment has a destination.

Edited October 24, 2018 by now is forever