Stage yellow pick-up

[bejapuskas]

@Lorcan Thanks Lorcan! It probably is a trap to assume that, but it seems like I have already went beyond that point where it is just an assumption, way too many things have changed and I actually feel the things Leo is saying in his video, I dont really have to go deep inside - that doesnt mean that I or you should stop growing by any means, there are many shades of yellow, just as any other colour. I am now re-visiting all the stages again, TJ gave me a good push in that direction, even though I dont agree on absolutely everything he is saying, but it could just be that I I dont get him. It seems like he is creating his own model, which is working quite well, if you understand it.

 

[7thLetter]

@bejapuskas Hey, you seem like a nice kid but I think you need to question why people here are saying you’re not Yellow. This is what the true Yellow person would do, look at the situation from other people’s perspectives rather than dismiss what people are saying and think “nope, I’m Yellow.” Most of us here are a lot older and have a decent amount of knowledge about how life works. So I think the reason why most people here are saying you’re not Yellow is because most people at a young age hasn’t had enough life experience yet. Most teenagers are focused on Highschool and hasn’t even stepped out into the real world yet. Also, you make it seem like Spiral Dynamics is a simple model, in which its not. And to reach the higher levels on the model means to actually go through multiple experiences rather than just watching countless videos. To say you’re reaching higher levels on the model is pretty much the same thing as saying you’re a lot more healthier and stronger in the gym just by watching gym videos on Youtube.

Another good way to figure out what stage you are at on the model, is to look at the friends you hang out with. Its very unlikely for a stage Yellow person to build strong friendships with people below their level. Not necessarily in an arrogant way but it happens sub-consciously. Even though they are open-minded and accept people as they are, generally speaking, just like every other stage they will mainly surround themselves with like-minded individuals. Stage Red criminals will hang out with other criminals so they can go out and do crime. Orange businessmen will do business with other Orange businessmen, and so on.

Also just understand that learning and growing does not equal stage Yellow. Growth is also a stage Orange value. Everyone in school values learning too, does that mean they’re all Yellow? Your teachers are Yellow because they value learning, went to University and studied some field for 4-8 years?

Like I said, nice kid, you’re lucky to find Leo’s videos at an early age, but this stuff is way more complex than it seems. Keep at it though, you’re still ahead of a lot of teenagers out there.

[Emerald]

On 10/17/2018 at 2:32 PM, bejapuskas said:

Hey guys!

Lately, I have been thinking about having a relationship, in order to get even more support and the classic Napoleon Hill type of sex drive motivation. I think that if I would find someone, who would resonate with me, it could open up a whole new dimension of growth.

The problem is, that I am 15, there are no yellow girls in my age - the country I live in is very blue - and I am generally not attracted to the girls from tier 1 of the spiral. I am also not that good with girls, even though I am not as terrible as I used to be.

I dont think this is some kind of solution to all my problems, but the thing is, that there might be something to it, you never know without trying. If I find such a girl, probably later in my life, I should probably be ready for that...

Do you have any suggestions? Does anybody have a similar issue?

Developmentally speaking, there is a strong need for Blue up until the later teens. So, understand that you're still growing through it. It's a necessary step in your development.

Now, I would have totally rejected that at age 15 because I was always a deep thinker who was interested in out of the box things. I know that I would have pegged myself at Yellow if I were into Spiral Dynamics at the time because I valued personal development even then. 

But in hindsight, I can see that I was a mix of Blue, Orange, and Green. Mostly Orange and Blue but with a touch of the nuanced thinking and the acceptance of Green.

But you have to understand that the Blue of the teen years isn't like the Blue of the adult years as Blue is developmentally appropriate for teens. The Blue of the teen years help teenagers develop a clear value system, which is something that is important in decisions making. The Blue of the adult years, creates stagnation, rigidity, and judgment if they don't grow through it. So, when this stage is appropriate to the age, it is very helpful with regard to growth. It's a very important rung on the ladder that should not be skipped over or ignored.

So, understand that it's highly improbable that you've gotten to Yellow at the age of 15... nor is it important to be at Yellow at your age. There is no value in skipping up stages at your age.  It would be highly unstable for you to try to develop Yellow before you have your Blue, Orange, and Green foundations set.

Just feel okay with being on the right track, and understand the Yellow will likely bloom at some point in your 20s if you keep working on it. But it honestly takes certain rights of passage and the blood, sweat, and tears of adulthood as well as the development of adulthood to make the quantum leap to Yellow. It also takes perspective.

And for girls... don't look for Yellow girls your age. You won't find them. Yellow requires adult development.

Just find a girl who's left the emotional volatility of Red behind completely, who has been working on the values of Blue and is in the process of growing through it. And she should also be developing the industriousness of Orange and have goals and dreams, and have some Green to her with regard to acceptance and forward-thinkingness. Then you'll be golden. There are plenty of teenage girls on the track to higher consciousness who have this mix. 

So, understand that Spiral Dynamics works different for children and teenagers. A child who is at Purple or Red is average. But a child who has begun to develop Blue is highly advanced and expanding. An adult who is stuck on Blue is behind and stagnating.

A teenager who is at Blue is average. A teenager who has begun to develop Orange is also highly advanced compared to their peers, but an adult who is at Orange is just average. And many adults never make it to Orange. 

 

[Spiral]

To be completely honest I have never meet anyone I would describe as yellow. Most who believe they are, are either orange or blue.

[bejapuskas]

@7thLetter As far as I remember, I havent said that I am the same level of yellow as Abraham Maslow or the authors of Spiral dynamics are. I just said, that I entered it, I am starting to see the world through these eyes. If I did make this model seem simple, it was caused by that I dont want to write my whole life story here, it doesnt even make sense. You know absolutely nothing about me, but I agree on that I have very little experiences, but you dont know that I am working on becoming an adult now, it just takes time, I just entered this stage, I am still very green, but I get that I am unpractical as hell. By the way, many people who are adults arent by any means lazy or undisciplined - they cannot be the other way, because the orange system manipulates them into thinking, that thats the way they have to live!

I actually dont speak to most of my friends, but I cannot stop doing it completely, as I go to school with them and it happens very consciously. Do you think that every yellow person has to lack social skills? Why? If you at have least some compassion, you would at least try to not make the other peoples lives miserable, just by interacting with them and ignoring them as you are doing it. Its just that I much rather read a book, but they come to me and want to gossip, which I dont like to initiate into.

Most of my friends are at least 10 years older than me, I have deep bonds with them, we share books, talk about interesting topics - learning doesnt only mean sitting at home, reading or watching Leo, but we also have a little bit of fun sometimes, why not. Even an enlightened master can laugh at peoples jokes, going tier 2 doesnt make a total geek from you. Our meetings look more like sophisticated and objective discussions without any resentful arguments about politics, rather than meaningless drinking and smoking electronic cigarettes, as most of the people in my age do. Even people above my age do that, including my family. The thing is, that the evolution is going further, generation after generation, most elders are blue because of that in contrast to my generation, where most people are either blue, orange or green. (or even a mixture of these 3, as you are saying)

Please, dont think that I am aggressive, its very hard to communicate without body language and facial expression, especially when discussing a topic like this. I am actually open to any advices, if I wasnt, I wouldnt ask you guys questions. Its just hard to accept these advices, when most of them are already irrelevant for me.

@Emerald What do you mean by the need for Blue development in my age? You can develop some great habits and values through Blue thinking, but its very biased otherwise, blue people are those who are bullied and have no friends nowadays. They either get depressed and change schools, without evolving, or they are just forced to go further. I am not saying that I or you are ignoring this stage, its very important to see the strengths and weaknesses of it, but its very easy to enter orange, when most people are surrounded by the internet.

I dont know how old are you Emerald, but teenagers arent blue nowadays, boys are mostly orange/blue and girls are green/orange/blue, but its easy to get fed up with these colours, if you take self-development seriously and do the actual work, listening to what Leo is saying carefully and doing action. Maybe we all take the Spiral dynamics model a bit differently, I am still mostly Green, but I dont think I have that much Blue, probably have some Orange, but definitely not Blue. I realized the need for adult development without you pointing it out to me. It just takes time, I am not the same league as Nietzsche or Elon Musk by any means, Yellow has many shades and tones, just as every other colour does.

 

I hope you understand my situation better now. Growing through pain makes miracles happen, I know what it means to be stuck at Blue, it sucks, its painful. I am probably a bit Orange, but I notice, that my level of compassion and empathy is skyrocketing nowadays, so I think that I am going into Green more. I definitely have a glimpse of Yellow, but its enough to understand many systems around me. It also seems that I balanced my personality way better than it used to be balanced. Thats very hard for tier 1 person to do. As Leo said, if you trust Spiral dynamics and dont lie to yourself, yoour growth can be multiplied by 10 easily.

[7thLetter]

@bejapuskas Notice how I haven’t really made the mistake of making any assumptions about you. And I definitely didn’t tell you what color you are. In my post previous to this one, I also said “I don’t know what you life is like.”

Actually, there can be Orange adults who aren’t pragmatic. Pragmatism is important for everyone and every stage on the spiral, even stage turquoise. An unhealthy stage turquoise person can be stuck in spirituality too much and not take any action. An unhealthy yellow person can analyze way too much in their head and invent impossible businesses that seem like it would solve all our problems but its not pragmatic. Imagine Leo is Turquoise, which obviously we don’t know. And imagine he wasn’t pragmatic and stopped making actualized.org videos because he was stuck meditating in a cave. Wouldn’t that be a problem for him and for all his viewers?

I didn’t say yellow people lack social skills. I’m saying its “unlikely” for them to build a ton of relationships. Generally speaking, they tend to value learning over love or friendships. Personally I think that Yellow should have decent social skills after living through Orange. Orange is the phase where ‘most people’ would take action, do pickup, network with other businessmen, go to toastmasters, etc. Especially with yellow being able to view life through multiple perspectives, they have the ability to re-visit the stages below them. If it makes sense for a certain situation in their life, they will go ahead and do that. If the yellow person needs to make some money, they will look back ar stage Orange, and try and implement some of those insights they’ve learned at that stage into some business. If they understand that they’re too cold and distant around their family, then they will go back to green and try to reconnect with them a little bit.

Edit: Another thing I wanted to add and ask is, if you’ve reached green and above, what happened to Orange? You mentioned “it didn’t really work.” Then now you’re green. Orange is actually a very important stage to go through. And if you’re 15, how could you have been through it all? Orange usually occurs when one develops some pragmatism, then maybe looks into entrepreneurship. And it doesn’t necessarily mean entrepreneurship but I would say it could mean taking business courses at school, finance, etc. or picking up a sales job. So I don’t know how you view it, but to try to reach the top as fast as possible isn’t the most ideal thing to do. This is my assumption but it seems like you’re proud of being 15 and reaching stage green as quick as possible. That’s another reason why its hard for someone to say that you’ve reached yellow because to reach yellow means to fully understand and experience the stages below it. Watching videos doesn’t count. 

If you’re curious I am mainly referring to my own knowledge, my own experiences, and this site over here: http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/

Edited October 20, 2018 by 7thLetter

[bejapuskas]

@7thLetter You are still misunderstanding a lot of things. You have actually made many assumptions about me, just re-read what you said. You are actually making assumptions about everyone here. You are even making assumption about the „typical“ yellow/green/orange/blue individual.

About Leo, he is not all that good or bad. Some people might get him correctly and develop themselves, but there are people, who are terribly depressed, because they have entered the beta stage of Spiral dynamics because of what they heard in his videos. (= stage, where you just cannot understand, what the hell is happening with you, you cannot really transition further, it can even end in a suicide) I even have a person on facebook who told me that he is suicidal and things that Leo is a freak. It really is a matter of attitude, perspective and approach.

Orange has 2 ends of the spectrum. It can either be lazy and cocky or driven by negative motivations, most of the time. I was really into video games, orange self-development, I even bought some courses from people like Tai Lopez... I also wanted to impress people by learning difficult languages like Japanese and Chinese, I think this counts as orange as well. I didnt do badly, but it didnt bring me any happiness at all, I was heavily dependent on people flattering my achievements.

Yellow person can still make tons of relationships, if he is good at finding people who understand him and support his ideas and work, why would he ever reject these people? Its about finding them, if you havent created a network of people like this before, it probably is hard to find them, but that doesnt apply to me, because with my knowledge of languages, I can immmidiately attract speakers of these languages and people who are also learning and people, who are learning languages like Japanese for some more meaningful purposes (not like mine, when I was learning), they tend to be very intelligent and disciplined people, who are worth talking to, at least from my experience.

Dont take this as some sort of hateful debate, I admit that I have a lot of things that I have to work on, but I am definitely not mostly blue/orange. The reason why I started to tell you this was because some people here were giving me advice that didnt really give me almost anything, as I am beyond that. I am also not craving for a relatioship, as some people here are probably thinking. Its just that people have created so many assumptions about me, so I dont want this thread to go to waste completely.

[7thLetter]

@bejapuskas They would be assumptions if I made statements claiming things about you. For example, “No you’re not yellow, I know everything about your life, you are stage red and blue.” Where have I made my assumptions? Next time use the quote feature on this forum and quote me. I would be more than happy to explain what I mean. And I’m not making assumptions about the blue/green/orange/yellow individuals. I’m sharing my insights, from personal experience, and knowledge from 2 different sources which is Leo’s videos, and spiraldynamicsintegral.nl. Plus, I use the words “Generally speaking” or “unlikely.” If you don’t understand it or don’t see it as valid ideas, then I don’t really care.

Again, my own insights here and referring to Leo’s videos, if you see it as an assumption, then that’s your persepctive on it and that doesn’t matter to me. But what I’m trying to say about yellow isn’t about rejecting others, or being an asshole or an arrogant cockhead. To others it may seem that way but in reality he/she is mainly just in his/her head about complex analysis and ideas, etc. They work on the sidelines, and don’t care too much about validation or love from others. The stage yellow person doesn’t make a conscious effort to go and be cold and distant around others, its just who they are and it just happens. Sure you can try and show affection with people and socialize but that’s acting out of integrity and it doesn’t last too long. This is who I am, I’m basically describing my life, and again, if you view it as an assumption of yellow, just go to the site I shared with you or Leo’s videos to see if what I’m saying matches up.

And you’re right, Yellow can find these people but they are not easy to find. This is one thing I struggle with, I only know 1 person in my life who watches Leo’s videos. Sometimes I make the effort to try to meet these people, but most of the time I don’t because I’m not in school, I just focus on my work at home. Although meetup groups may seem like a good idea but I’m mainly focused on what I do.

By the way did you read my edit in my last post? Don’t know if you have, doesn’t seem like you responded to it on the last post. Oh well

Edited October 20, 2018 by 7thLetter

[bejapuskas]

1 hour ago, bejapuskas said:

Orange has 2 ends of the spectrum. It can either be lazy and cocky or driven by negative motivations, most of the time. I was really into video games, orange self-development, I even bought some courses from people like Tai Lopez... I also wanted to impress people by learning difficult languages like Japanese and Chinese, I think this counts as orange as well. I didnt do badly, but it didnt bring me any happiness at all, I was heavily dependent on people flattering my achievements.

 

This is my reaction to your edit. I basically became so fed up with my need for approval that I became green and was trying to help other people, but that became very limiting soon. I also tried veganism for moral reasons and I was basically a weakling because of that. I havent really transcended these stages the best way I could, so I am on my way to revisit all the stages including beige.  

I would also like to describe what I mean, but that would only prolong our conversation. I think its just my disability to express myself precisely.

Anyway, back to the topic. Can you please give me any advice about the thing I mentioned above? I am still very interested. I havent said that I NEED a relationship, I just said that I have never had a healthy one and that closes me off from some growth that I could collect. I hope you understand my situation better now, so we can actually get back to the theme.

[7thLetter]

@bejapuskas I mean I wouldn’t say I’m an expert on this topic but some practical suggestions for you would be:

• Join meetup groups in your area
• If you’re in highschool, join clubs and meet more people
• Go the Orange pickup route and approach girls your age in public.
• Move out of your country or state
• Meet more people who would possibly introduce you to their friends or family. Then one thing leads to another you might meet your future girlfriend.

Of course not a lot of people have the luxury of moving out of their country but I’m just throwing some suggestions out there.

There’s not a lot to say on the theory side of things because it all boils down to taking the practical steps and just going out there and meeting people.

One thing to add though is try not to judge people for where they stand on the spiral. It can be very limiting and if you just want to date girls Yellow and above then you will be searching for a very long time. Just look for girls who you can connect with on a romantic level. Not necessarily on an intellectual level because attraction isn’t mainly about how well you guys can connect on an intellectual level. Besides, you can always be the one that encourges them to grow along with you down the road. Just try not to lecture them.

[bejapuskas]

@7thLetter  I see... I am already doing most of these things, maybe I could try learning more about pick-up. I dont see a girlfriend as some kind of colourful trophy lol. I know a lot of girls, but I am not really attracted to any of them. Its not because they arent yellow, but its just some aspect of their personality, that doesnt attract me. I used to fall in love very often, when I was depressed, but now, when I cured my negative feelings, I no longer feel the urge to fill in the gaps with someone else, that could be a problem, if I try to do pick-up. I hate to lie and manipulate, as I used to do it and it only made my life worse in general.

Do you think a school psychologist could help me to deepen my understanding of the lower stages? I mean, her services are free and she could make my contemplation and thinking process more effective, thus helping me evolve from tier 1 fully.

[7thLetter]

@bejapuskas I say give pickup a try, it could help you deepen your understanding of Orange. If you don’t like it then just simply stop and find another route.

Not sure if most psychologists understand Spiral Dynamics, especially if her services are free. But of course I don’t know her. Generally speaking, what they teach in school about psychology are the basic topics like personality, body language, personality disorders, family, etc. I think would be quite rare to find a psycholgist who understands what Leo talks about. But you can definitely go ahead and talk to her about dating/relationships. That’s a topic she may know about.

 

 

[bejapuskas]

@7thLetter I am not assuming anything about her, but it might be useful to at least give it a try  You never know... I will probably try pick-up... Thanks man!

[Emerald]

On 10/20/2018 at 9:23 AM, bejapuskas said:

 

@Emerald What do you mean by the need for Blue development in my age? You can develop some great habits and values through Blue thinking, but its very biased otherwise, blue people are those who are bullied and have no friends nowadays. They either get depressed and change schools, without evolving, or they are just forced to go further. I am not saying that I or you are ignoring this stage, its very important to see the strengths and weaknesses of it, but its very easy to enter orange, when most people are surrounded by the internet.

I dont know how old are you Emerald, but teenagers arent blue nowadays, boys are mostly orange/blue and girls are green/orange/blue, but its easy to get fed up with these colours, if you take self-development seriously and do the actual work, listening to what Leo is saying carefully and doing action. Maybe we all take the Spiral dynamics model a bit differently, I am still mostly Green, but I dont think I have that much Blue, probably have some Orange, but definitely not Blue. I realized the need for adult development without you pointing it out to me. It just takes time, I am not the same league as Nietzsche or Elon Musk by any means, Yellow has many shades and tones, just as every other colour does.

 

I hope you understand my situation better now. Growing through pain makes miracles happen, I know what it means to be stuck at Blue, it sucks, its painful. I am probably a bit Orange, but I notice, that my level of compassion and empathy is skyrocketing nowadays, so I think that I am going into Green more. I definitely have a glimpse of Yellow, but its enough to understand many systems around me. It also seems that I balanced my personality way better than it used to be balanced. Thats very hard for tier 1 person to do. As Leo said, if you trust Spiral dynamics and dont lie to yourself, yoour growth can be multiplied by 10 easily.

I'm 29, and I'm a substitute teacher who spends most of their days around middles schoolers and high schoolers. Most of them are developing Blue and Orange because they are learning to be industrious and setting clear values for themselves. I've never seen a healthy teenager that wasn't in the process of developing Blue... though I have seen plenty who are still deeply Red. A highly developed teenager has left Red behind completely, is mostly Blue and Orange, and has developed a little bit of Green. Now, teenage Blue may not seem Blue because it doesn't very much resemble the dogmatic and puritanical nature of Blue adults. But because it is about setting down clear values and sticking to them, it is still Blue. And it's highly necessary.

Again, I would have labeled myself Yellow as a teenager. I was a highly developed teenager, in fact... very forward thinking. But looking back at the way that I thought, it was mostly Blue/Orange with some Green. But Blue was a major component even though I was quite against the Blueness of adults. I was iconoclastic... but I was still Blue with regard to my own values. And this was an important developmental step. It was part of getting to know myself and my preferences and values.

And trust me, teenagers are 99.9% the same as they were 10-15 years ago. The only differences are that they care a bit more about politics because of the political situation we're now in, and the trends are slightly different.

Other than that, teenagers are teenagers. They're still doing the same things in very similar ways. And I've been in classrooms as a teacher-figure since I was 19 years old when I started doing Practicum. So, I've been teaching since I was just a year older than the oldest students. Trust me... there has been no major shift. 

[bejapuskas]

@Emerald What country do you live in? 

[bejapuskas]

@Emerald I dont understand, what do you mean by blue/orange... Can you describe it more accurately please? It just feels that there is no way, that most of my classmates are blue. I am probably very green, some orange, some yellow, but... my classmates are green or orange, maybe some are red and blue, but its definitely not the majority

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Emerald What country do you live in? 

I live in America... Florida to be specific.

8 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Emerald I dont understand, what do you mean by blue/orange... Can you describe it more accurately please? It just feels that there is no way, that most of my classmates are blue. I am probably very green, some orange, some yellow, but... my classmates are green or orange, maybe some are red and blue, but its definitely not the majority

Teenage Blue is when teenagers are discovering their preferences and creating values to live by. So, they take them very seriously, and they don't stray from those values. Some of these values might match the status quo. But others may not. It is specific to the teenager.

For example, when I was a teenager, I was a stoner who valued being laid back and non-judgmental. I also appreciated creativity, iconoclasm, and rebellion against the status quo. I also valued hard work, excellence, and getting good grades. I also valued being a good person and accepting others. I also valued, doing illegal but "non-harmful-to-others" things like smoking pot, doing graffiti, etc. I appreciated the irony of being two ways that many adult "Blues" would see as incongruent. I valued being interesting over most other values. I valued diving deep into the strange. I also valued my romantic, familial, and friendship-based relationships. I also valued not having sex outside of a relationship (once I got to be about 15). This time period was all about making decisions about what I valued and how I wanted to conduct my life... and what it means to conduct a good life.

These don't really look like Blue values. But the way that I related to them was very Blue. I thought that I had the best values and the most righteous values. I felt a sense of superiority over others who did not have these same values. So, it didn't manifest in the way that Blue tends to manifest for adults, as adults's Blue values usually mirror the status quo. But my relationship to my values definitely had a strong mix of Blue.

Teenage and adult Orange tend to manifest as industriousness and developing a strong work ethic. Also, the ability to set goals and reach them and to have an overarching career vision for one's life. And valuing success, accolades, and financial rewards. The ability to work longer hours and set strategic plans for the future also come up in Orange. 

[bejapuskas]

@Emerald I see what you are pointing to now... But literally every stage of the tier 1 thinks, that its values are the best, or maybe close to the best. I also dont understand, why it can be, that if a blue person goes into orange, he doesnt become orange. (if he does value it of course, friends might just make him do it...) From what Leo is saying, I imagine green as someone, who is disgusted by grafitti, sex, drugs, alcohol... People who do these things are usually orange or red in my point of view, I have never seen it as you are seeing it.

Do you think, that if a girl is really emotional, volunteers in a hospital, is very caring, has many friends around her... that it can actually be blue? Its not like a dogma, it really appears to me as green, how is it not green?

The same with orange, I have a friend, who is probably still a bit blue, but he is so obsessed with science, he could gradute from high school in the age of 15 and he criticizes even people like Wim Hof, he would think they are literally cheating or using some technological device in their lungs...

I just feel that these things that you named can appear in any stage in tier 1, its not just a matter of blue.

 

[thehero]

stage yellow marriage

Edited October 25, 2018 by thehero

[Hello from Russia]

Tbh there is nothing special about stage yellow pickup. You'd rather spend your time imagining what stage turquoise pickup is, and what stage turquoise relationship is. This is really golden and worth pursuing. You can get some ideas from David Deida and "spiritual" sex books (tantric sex, dao sex, jing-jeng, etc)

Edited October 25, 2018 by Hello from Russia