How would science be different if it went post-rational and post-materialist ?

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

Ignorance is unaware of it’s own ignorance and will aggressively defend it’s own ignorance.

That the defensive nature of self for you. I agree. That’s is the result of not seeing our own limitation. Well said dude 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

That the defensive nature of self for you. I agree. 

It seems to happen to all of us. I try to keep an eye on it. It’s a block against growth.

[Robert]

21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

You haven’t transcended rationality yet.

Leo addresses this in one of his videos. I think it’s the ine in contemplation 

I transcended rationality years ago. I would say about 7 years ago when I moved up to Green on the spiral at the age of 16. I'm Coral now.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It’s a block against growth.

I fee ya. Maybe because we inherently are trying to evolve psychologically. What do you think. Evolve as in, psychological becoming. Maybe if that stops that defensiveness stops as well. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

24 minutes ago, Robert said:

I transcended rationality years ago. I would say about 7 years ago when I moved up to Green on the spiral at the age of 16. I'm Coral now.

Then you should be comfortable with post-rational self-inquiry and contemplation. As well, you would understand how post-rationality can contribute to science.

[Jack River]

14 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

As well, you would understand how post-rationality can contribute to science.

It’s actully really important. The lack of corruption in thought, as in science, means less distorted psychological disposition when it comes to humans and there understanding of there place in the universe. Then you don’t get this I am “merely” blood and bones in a mechanical machine called the universe. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@Jack River As well, intuition and metaphysics would strengthen science

[Jack River]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

@Jack River As well, intuition and metaphysics would strengthen science

Fosho. Intuition or insight puts order in the mechanism of thought itself. I agree 

[Forestluv]

@Jack River We scientists use surface-level intuition and metaphysics all the time. Scientists just don’t like admitting it, because they see it as  whoo-whoo

[Robert]

26 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Then you should be comfortable with post-rational self-inquiry and contemplation. As well, you would understand how post-rationality can contribute to science.

You seem to think that I'm dismissing post-rationalism as nothing. That's not what I'm doing. I even said in my first post in this thread that post-rationalism would be good for scientists to significantly improve the quality of their experiments. I see the wisdom, trust me.

When I was 16 years old I felt isolated because I was thinking post-rationally and I couldn't communicate it to anyone and no one understood me at all. I also cared about the planet and animals yet most of the other kids didn't at all because they were Red, Blue, or Orange. I even had a therapist who I believe was Orange who sort of made it seem like I was being unreasonable for getting emotional due to the state of the planet and not only my personal life. One time I cried right in front of her when IIRC she basically said I shouldn't care about the planet that much. I understand Green and post-rationalism. I get it. But post-rationalism is not useful for figuring out the universe. Rationalism is what enables us to get results with science and spiritual practices, even if the insights can only be understood by a post-rational thinker.

[Forestluv]

2 minutes ago, Robert said:

But post-rationalism is not useful for figuring out the universe. Rationalism is what enables us to get results with science and spiritual practices, even if the insights can only be understood by a post-rational thinker.

This seems like green-level post-rational abilities. You may be transitioning to Yellow and developing more sophisticated post-rational abilities. 

[Jack River]

One problem with rationalism/rationality is the psychological/emotional bias that is inherent in thought itself. The clinging to our own experience/knowledge to satisfy the selfs own psychological needs. When this disease is transcended thought works much more efficient/coherently. 

That and not seeing that thought is always limited implicitly as well. Knowledge is always in incomplete. This post rational thinking can still do everything it could before, better actually. A certain capacity isn’t given up, it’s just used where it is useful, and not used when it has no place. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Jack River said:

One problem with rationalism/rationality is the psychological/emotional bias that is inherent in thought itself. The clinging to our own experience/knowledge to satisfy the selfs own psychological needs. When this disease is transcended thought works much more efficient/coherently. 

That and not seeing that thought is always limited implicitly as well. Knowledge is always in incomplete. This post rational thinking can still do everything it could before, better actually.  

In post-rational being, my thoughts have no more relevance than a bird chirp.

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

In post-rational being, my thoughts have no more relevance than a bird chirp.

Yeah lol 

It’s an art dude. Thought responds when necessary, when not necessary, thoughts doesn’t respond. That is ‘the silence’

But what about nonbeing? That’s where the magic happens huh ? 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

For most people thought is the constant. But for this post rational being as you refer to it, silence is the constant and thought arises and falls back into the ground when its is needed to solve practical problems. But thought doesnt move compulsively psychologically anymore. This means the majority of the day is spent in pure silence dude. If there is this deep deep silence maybe even nothingness/nonbeing. Gnarly dude?

Edited October 20, 2018 by Jack River

[Robert]

34 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This seems like green-level post-rational abilities. You may be transitioning to Yellow and developing more sophisticated post-rational abilities. 

I remember the exact moment I started moving through Yellow. It was years ago before I even knew what Spiral Dynamics was. I became aware of the other stages, which Leo says is basically a clear sign that you're in tier 2. I was in my room thinking about politics and trying to figure out the world's problems until the moment came that I asked myself something along the lines of: "what perspective will I take next?" Then I started to reflect on how I went from Christian to atheist to liberal, etc. And from that moment on I started to embody everything stage Yellow: systems thinking, integration, etc.

I moved into Turquoise about 2-3 years ago, then Coral about 6-7 months ago.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

For most people thought is the constant. But for this post rational being as you refer to it, silence is the constant and thought arises and falls back into the ground when its is needed to solve practical problems. But thought doesnt move compulsively psychologically anymore. This means the majority of the day is spent in pure silence dude. If there is this deep deep silence maybe even nothingness/nonbeing. Gnarly dude?

Have you seen the movie “The Man Who Knew infinity”?

[Jack River]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

Have you seen the movie “The Man Who Knew infinity”?

No. New or old? 

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Robert said:

I remember the exact moment I started moving through Yellow. It was years ago before I even knew what Spiral Dynamics was. I became aware of the other stages, which Leo says is basically a clear sign that you're in tier 2. I was in my room thinking about politics and trying to figure out the world's problems until the moment came that I asked myself something along the lines of: "what perspective will I take next?" Then I started to reflect on how I went from Christian to atheist to liberal, etc. And from that moment on I started to embody everything stage Yellow: systems thinking, integration, etc.

I moved into Turquoise about 2-3 years ago, then Coral about 6-7 months ago.

Your views on post-rational being seem high Green to me. Perhaps transitioning to low Yellow.

A Yellow/Turqoise being would have direct experience and understanding of post-rational self-inquiry and contemplation. Perhaps consider exploring this area. Leo made a great video on it.

Notice how our conversation on post-rationalism is different than my conversation on post-rationalism with Jack River. It’s not “better” or “worse” - just in a different space.

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, Jack River said:

No. New or old? 

2015.

It’s based on a brilliant mathematician with post-rational abilities. His rational collegues saw him as a threat and ostracized him.

I haven’t seen it, yet I want to