Noticing the mind / ego's tricks / addictions

[SoonHei]

One thing I came to know during a sit was this

 

Any addiction one is trying to quit has to be done when the craving is here 

 

Question one should ask themselves is do I want to stop this addiction?

If the answer is yes, don't do that thing in the moment when the craving arises

What we tend to do (especially me) is that we tell ourselves, ok, I'll do it the last time now/today, and won't do it again after this. And this is repeated continuously

Exactly this way

What one needs to realize is that if they want to stop the addiction/action, then there CANNOT be a concession of a "last time". it MUST end NOW.

Not the next time it arises... no more "one last time" excuse.

 

 

Another thing is this, when I watch my ego with my awareness and come to see the tricks of the ego... I am able to guide myself out of that trap and not get angry or involved in the moment

 

However, i am curious..

 Is this not what you call a spiritual ego? The noticing itself is noticed .. so when I am guiding myself by watching the ego in these moments... Is that really authentic? 

Or this IS the way to do it? As we get more aware, we are still living as an ego but now it's less deluded? How to avoid a trap here thinking that I have finally got it 

.watch my thoughts... Let go... Be present, don't project or worry... Etc... All this is itself watched... 

Does persistence give ultimately show the glimpse from the first order point of view?

Edited October 17, 2018 by SoonHei
grammar correction and underlining. clarity

[deci belle]

Quote

Any addiction one is trying to quit has to be done when the craving is here 

Nailed it, Soon. Ya gotta chew right through the iron spike while it's HOT.

[DrewNows]

9 hours ago, SoonHei said:

Is this not what you call a spiritual ego? The noticing itself is noticed .. so when I am guiding myself by watching the ego in these moments... Is that really authentic? 

I would say no...but do you think one cultivate a healthy ego? Does ego act authentically? 

 

9 hours ago, SoonHei said:

Or this IS the way to do it? As we get more aware, we are still living as an ego but now it's less deluded? How to avoid a trap here thinking that I have finally got it 

Maybe you, as ego, are more conscious but does this create authenticity? What is authenticity? 

 

9 hours ago, SoonHei said:

.watch my thoughts... Let go... Be present, don't project or worry... Etc... All this is itself watched... 

Does persistece give me the first order point of view?

Looks to me like ego could be watching, judging, and analyzing with some idea of enlightenment 

 

@SoonHeiSome good insights here though! 

Edited October 16, 2018 by DrewNows

[SoonHei]

@deci belle @DrewNows

 

thank you for the input

 

and yeah, i guess it can't be helped but be this way.

while the true nature is not yet realized. one has to / is always operating via ego

but the degree of delusion can be lower and the degree of authenticity can be raised while working as the ego

[DrewNows]

40 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

while the true nature is not yet realized. one has to / is always operating via ego

but the degree of delusion can be lower and the degree of authenticity can be raised while working as the ego

It is scary to realize if you haven't unraveled all the aspects of yourself, the degree authenticity is limited. I still notice my mechanical people pleasing responses in certain situations. Teal swan has a great video on authenticity. check it out if you'd like  

I feel an ongoing objective alertness of oneself is the surest way to understand if I am being authentic. And I see increasing authenticity as a step toward dissolving ego  

Edited October 16, 2018 by DrewNows

[SoonHei]

being authentic... could that be defined loosely as any action which is reflective of the "truth"

and it isn't being driven by a personal desire, want, need? not to say that one should give up those 100% from the get go.

but i think this is to be applied and questioned when making a decision leading to a fork in the road. choosing the option after questioning it honestly and really seeing what is ego driven and what is more authentic..

[Flammable]

Alan Watts had a good analogy here - he said that the ego is like a burglar in a house, who once the police come in just goes to the upper floor, thus to infinity. Whenever you defraud the ego and catch it, it identifies with something else - can be spiritual ego or any other voice saying 'haha, look at that ego'. 

So there is an infinite amount of watchers of watchers of watchers - until you realize that there are actually none. Infinite strange loop galore.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Flammable

[SoonHei]

10 minutes ago, Flammable said:

infinite amount of watchers of watchers of watchers - until you realize that there are actually none.

@Flammable or is it rather that until "you" realize that there is ONLY ONE watcher who watches all these apparent watchers

its the elusive experience of this understanding which needs to come forward somehow in your direct experience 

[DrewNows]

the watcher and the watched is one. mind creates the false division. can we see this in our direct experience? 

There is only experiencing without separation but we cant just make the assumption 

[Preetom]

@SoonHei

That's probably the neatest insight about addiction recovery I've ever come across. Thanks for sharing!

About the spiritual ego, all I have to say is that investigate and notice if this 'knowingness' is personal at all. The ego personalizes Awareness which is the main dilemma as Leo put it so nicely, '' You've taken God and you have recontextualized God as yourself''.  It is the ego thought that believes that it owns this awareness. But notice that, all vestiges of personality are 'known' equally.

What is it that knows my present experience? Is it located? Where is it? is it an experience itself?

Contemplate and see how the 'personal' witness dissolves.

And about authenticity, it's really messy to discuss it from fragmented state like love, honesty, happiness etc. These things are recognized in oneself in it's true and purest form. So it's better not to conceptualize or trying to fake these things.

You can't trust your present thoughts. Notice that if you are addicted to food, eating feels authentic to you. The mind rationalizes it as natural. This is exactly why overcoming addiction is so hard. You have no friends here. Your very own mind and body is working against you.

To me the true definition of authenticity or any true action is that which leaves no trace. Like a perfect fuel, it gets burned completely. But notice that almost none of our actions is like that. We always get buried under rationalization, justification, suffering, denial, reaction, guilt, shame, worrying etc after almost everything we do. We are 'conflicted' all the time. This is why you are recognizing something as addiction and trying to overcome it.

If you could snort cocaine without leaving any psychological trace whatsoever, then that would be truly authentic. This level of authenticity, you can't fake it or reproduce it on command. It comes as a byproduct of self realization.

[BuddhaTree]

It is great that you are aware of your addictions. I'd say that you should not make an effort to remove them but ask yourself who has these addictions instead. Try to find the root of the addictions! Then remain in the awareness that remains.

[SoonHei]

8 hours ago, Preetom said:

About the spiritual ego, all I have to say is that investigate and notice if this 'knowingness' is personal at all. The ego personalizes Awareness which is the main dilemma as Leo put it so nicely, '' You've taken God and you have recontextualized God as yourself''.  It is the ego thought that believes that it owns this awareness. But notice that, all vestiges of personality are 'known' equally.

Thank you @Preetom

 

This was great! Love it.

8 hours ago, Preetom said:

If you could snort cocaine without leaving any psychological trace whatsoever, then that would be truly authentic.

Lol. That's one motivation to become self realized

 

@BuddhaTree yup. That's a spin I try to work with as well. Often time that shows a loophole otherwise unseen.

[deci belle]

Quote

while the true nature is not yet realized. one has to / is always operating via ego

but the degree of delusion can be lower and the degree of authenticity can be raised while working as the ego

Suuuuch a pregnant phrase, Soon! So I can't help but add:

(The effective application of) ego is becoming of oneself within delusion. To the degree the world is gradually acknowledged as no different in reality (therefore accessible via the working of potential), the true nature becomes self-evident— not just in an instant.

The authentic working of ego turns out to be the perpetually spontaneous realization of one's natural enlightening function at the service of Universal Good without ever needing to decide. It actually goes without saying (or minding), such liberation from psychological practicalities is the realization of one's inherent unattributability, always operating via ego whose authentic nature opens into the profound way of inconceivability in reality, while its traces take on the virtuous qualities of the unadorned.

[Jack River]

51 minutes ago, deci belle said:

The authentic working of ego turns out to be the perpetually spontaneous realization of one's natural enlightening function at the service of Universal Good without ever needing to decide.

As in choiceless or non-action. An action arising out of order. That order is not influenced by thought or the reactionary responses triggered by psychological activation. It’s pretty groovy. There isn’t any deciding. Which is totally a falling out of the usual pattern of conditioned mind. 

 

51 minutes ago, deci belle said:

while its traces take on the virtuous qualities of the unadorned.

order/goodness/simplicity

Edited October 17, 2018 by Jack River

[SageModeAustin]

On 10/15/2018 at 0:45 PM, SoonHei said:

Any addiction one is trying to quit has to be done when the craving is here 

Yep!

[SoonHei]

@deci belle thank you. i agree. the more in line with true nature one is . the more effortless all the action happens.