If all of mankind were enlightened most likely there would be no Therapist.

[Tony 845]

Apparently being enlightened doesn't cure all nuroces.

[Aimblack]

@Serotoninluv It's not that I made the assessment of whether those people were enlightened or not. Look at an universally recognized teacher like Joshu Sasaki roshi so all those people he thought and led to become teachers and masters are also not enlightened? All the other master who recognized him as a master also were just bullshitting? 

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I don’t accept your view of “enlightenment”.

Me either. The essence of liberated action is freedom from dependence on thought to solve psychological problems. Freedom doesn’t depend on “things” of thought. 

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, hundreth said:

It's nice to see you disagreeing with Leo about something. 

This goes much deeper than disagreement, me and Leo.

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

Me either. The essence of liberated action is freedom from dependence on thought to solve psychological problems. Freedom doesn’t depend on “things” of thought. 

You can be liberated from the dream, but maybe you still want to participate in the dream and play by it's rules. I don't have to play Mario, but if I am I'm going to hit that block and pick up the mushroom...

[SgtPepper]

32 minutes ago, Tony 845 said:

@SgtPepper  how deeply are they aware? 

It's definitely a minority. but I've met a couple of professors during my education that were into mindfulness as a way to cope with mental health. But I did not bring up enlightenment too much or ego dissolution, but one of them expressed that they liked Jim Carrey's recent speeches, so that says something.

but honestly, I don't really know. Very hard for me to break student-professor relationship without feeling fear of judgment. and I rely on these individuals to write me letter of recommendation so I am not THAT open about my experiences because I may come off crazy and unprofessional. 

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

@Serotoninluv It's not that I made the assessment of whether those people were enlightened or not. Look at an universally recognized teacher like Joshu Sasaki roshi so all those people he thought and led to become teachers and masters are also not enlightened? All the other master who recognized him as a master also were just bullshitting? 

Imagine transcending teachers and students. 

[Jack River]

Just now, hundreth said:

You can be liberated from the dream, but maybe you still want to participate in the dream and play by it's rules. I don't have to play Mario, but if I am I'm going to hit that block and pick up the mushroom...

Lol nice.  I’m just saying we don’t look to the dream to gain or attain psychological security. We have to play..but we don’t have to play to feel psychologically secure. Thanks for response dude? 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, hundreth said:

You can be liberated from the dream, but maybe you still want to participate in the dream and play by it's rules. I don't have to play Mario, but if I am I'm going to hit that block and pick up the mushroom...

And would Mario need a therapist? ?

[Aimblack]

@Serotoninluv That really isn't a response to anything I said though...

[Tony 845]

I'm Looking forward to being enlightened & not having to sit on this forum ???‍♂️ ? 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Tony 845

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

@Serotoninluv That really isn't a response to anything I said though...

Because the view is pre-transcendant. All of those teachers and students are within something deeper. Keep digging deeper. 

[hundreth]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

And would Mario need a therapist? ?

He might, if the game calls for it. There are games with therapists. You're living in one.

[Aimblack]

@Serotoninluv Again with the pseudo answers either your spirituality level is over 9000 and you can't be bothered to answer or you answer choose one. "Dig deeper. Keep digging" doesn't even mean anything in this context...like imagine if my first response to your first post was "You don't have the whole picture, keep seeking and you shall understand"

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

@Serotoninluv Again with the pseudo answers either your spirituality level is over 9000 and you can't be bothered to answer or you answer choose one. "Dig deeper. Keep digging" doesn't even mean anything in this context...like imagine if my first response to your first post was "You don't have the whole picture, keep seeking and you shall understand"

His spirituality level is off the charts!

 

[Aimblack]

@hundreth my man! 

[SgtPepper]

38 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I lived within an awakened community in the mountains of Peru. There was no need for therapists. 

Don't they have shamans instead? Pretty much the same thing. A therapist is someone who will listen non-judgmentally and create a space of acceptance like a mirror for the individual to find themselves. In addition, they can guide that person and enable them to feel their feelings deeper, when they do not know how to.

Perhaps this will not be as needed if everyone becomes masters at self-reflection. But someone certainly has to model those techniques for it to become easily adaptable on a community level. 

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What would a psychologist treat if there was no self?

I am not sure, whatever "problems" people have regarding their psychology. Psychologists specialize in psychological phenomenon from a subjective perspective. They work to conceptualize psychological experiences in a predictable way that can be communicated and understood in an "objective" manner, at least in the western worldview. Thanks to the work of Sigmund Freud, we can look at someone's comment and realize, oh yeah! thats just a projection of their own issues. 

Psychology was born out of need for people to relieve their neurosis or to even understand why it is occurring. I went into the field because I saw the world around me and decided the world needs more people who can help others guide and find peace and relief in their mental experiences. 

 

[SgtPepper]

 

36 minutes ago, thehero said:

not only do they not know about enlightenment but they barely listened to my problem and gave me some funky medicine that had nothing to do with my disorder at the time and of which had serious addiction and side effect potential 

ahahahahaha 

unfortunately, current medical care for mental health (in the mainstream) is poor

you can find great and amazing therapists and specialists 

but in my experience, many of them have: 

a lack of holistic view: they are too specialized and don't have knowledge of other industries and perspectives (this was the problem with one of my specialists). sometimes lack of being holistic is okay. i still got a lot from her. 

a lack of expert understanding: one of my therapists once did not have an amazing understanding of emotions. while it was okay, i wanted something phenomenal, world-class. she did not have answers to some of my questions, which were perhaps intermediate-advanced level questions about emotions. 

a lack of direct experience: many of these therapists are not developed themselves! they don't apply therapy work on themselves and are they themselves neurotic. they're just regular people doing getting their job done and getting paid. 

 

go to a doctor that has a holistic view, a strong & deep understanding, and is developed in psychology themselves. 

 

Be careful you are not visiting a Psychiatrist and expecting them to perform high quality therapy. Psychiatrist fundamental approach to solving mental health is through Pharma drugs.

I agree with your critique on the average psychologist, BUT the good news is there is a wave and a push within the psychology community to be more holistic and systemic. The truth is if you want a good psychologist with deep development, you're going to have to look in the same way you can find a life coach who has poor development vs someone like Leo who has a strong personal development experience. 

Everyone here should also realize that psychology is a new field. It didn't even really start until the work of Freud and William James which is late 1800s. There is so much to integrate and refine when it comes to this work and its not even easy to prove given it is difficult to measure and conceptualize psychological phenomena in a way everyone can easily digest and understand, and then TEACH to new upcoming psychologists.

 

[Jack River]

12 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Psychology was born out of need for people to relieve their neurosis

Only looking to what thought has invented to solve psychological problems is the very movement of psychological time that creates those problems. If that was commonly understood there would be no need for psychologist. We would see that freedom isn’t time dependent. It is not the result of knowledge/advising/therapy. But yeah I see what you mean. If a psychologist or psychotherapist could some how bring it to the awareness of conciousness that would be nice. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@SgtPepper do you think understanding the self/thought in education would be a good idea? Like as a youngster.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River