Concentration vs. Awareness in Mindfulness Meditation

[Jack River]

Observation isn't something you do to get somewhere but is the result of the ending of that. You can’t obseve passively until you see and end the pattern of psychological time. See it holistically/actually as a fact. The truth of it.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

 

32 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Observation isn't something you do to get somewhere but is the result of the ending of that. You can’t obseve passively until you see and end the pattern of psychological time. See it holistically/actually as a fact. The truth of it.

Different religions and or methods can in essence provide the backbone to the end of psychological conflict. However, there will still be conflict/suffering where there is fear. When the truth is rejected,or misunderstood. The mind can easily rationalize something away as being evil or whatever. 

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

However, there will still be conflict/suffering where there is fear.

I see that too. This seems to be because the self is trying to identify with the content of thought. As in religions, methods, and such. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

I think it comes down to desire. As long as desire is, so is contradiction. And contradiction=conflict/fear. That will one way or another be limited by psychological seeking. This really held me up for a long time. 

[DrewNows]

No way to the absolute, self does not find this very appealing (desirable) 

[who chit]

So the "me" has to stop the habit of wanting to attain or desire a result first, then be the observer of thought/time,of which it is a fragment of, to see it's pattern and end it. Then "passive observation" can take place without the observer.

This would be using the observer,to observe thought/time,of which it is a fragment of,to end both thought/time and itself the fragmented "me/observer",which would then allow passive observation. Yes?

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

No way to the absolute, self does not find this very appealing (desirable) 

self and desire are the same so self hates to let desire go

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, who chit said:

So the "me" has to stop the habit of wanting to attain or desire a result first

It seems the me can’t stop the habit. It is the habit. We three agree with this?

[who chit]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

It seems the me can’t stop the habit. It is the habit. We three agree with this?

I agree,as habit is it's nature.

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, who chit said:

This would be using the observer,to observe thought/time

No because when that habit/“me’ness” is seen through that means that “the observer” is no longer observing. But instead there is an unconditioned observation. 

 

3 minutes ago, who chit said:

I agree,as habit is it's nature.

Yeah I see that too dude. 

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

I also see how we do tend to move on time in the beginning @who chit. Until it's seen that we cannot. Or that time/me/desire is the limitation itself 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

By the way I like your posts @who chit. Cool style

[Charlotte]

I've noticed that so many people get triggered by this type of 'talk', why? (Referring to faceless, jack etc)

@Jack River could you send me some recommended videos please brother ♥️?

[DrewNows]

19 minutes ago, who chit said:

This would be using the observer,to observe thought/time,of which it is a fragment of,to end both thought/time and itself the fragmented "me/observer",which would then allow passive observation. Yes?

Yes to observe the nature of thought and division allows for experiencing without the experiencer or the veil of thought 

[who chit]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

I also see how we do tend to move on time in the beginning @who chit. Until it's seen that we cannot. Or that time/me/desire is the limitation itself 

This is what I'm getting at. In the beginning,unless one is gifted/born with a naturally dominant silent mind, one has to start out using/being the "me"/observer to observe thought. This is a decision or choice made in order to affect a result. And that is to understand the nature of thought or "the cause"  in order to end it. This is using the "me" as the observer,to understand the "me". This is what anyone has to do in the beginning,because they have not yet seen the "me" to also be a part of thought. This is the method of "being the witness" spoken about earlier. Using thought/me to end itself.

When the falseness of the "me"/thought/memory is seen through,it drops and our true Self/ nature shines.
I'm not barking bullshit,or trying to be difficult, because this is the first "tool" or "method" I used a few years back to have a first ,what I would call, major realization. It wasn't enough to end the "me" permanently,but it provided the gap or space in which the "me" could then be seen from a space of separation and detachment. This was the catalyst that lead to the Absolute full awakening later on.

[Jack River]

@who chit in feel ya man. That's why I said we start out moving in the pattern of desire anyway. I am just saying why do we say it is necessary to do that? The sooner we see the falsity if that the sooner there is freedom. But for me to say t is necessary to follow in that pattern doesn’t make sense. The fact is we do so anyway. I wouldn’t say it’s a I’m born with it type of thing either. But instead just depending on how we approach this whole thing. If someone would have relayed this message I am giving now to me along time ago I would have been free 9 years ago. We have to see that what we end today as in time makes for a different tomorrow. But if I keep moving in a certain pattern today tomorrow will be the same. Or if we can end this time without trying to use time itself then I think this will become more common is consciousness itself. Just like conciousness became divided it can also end that division. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@who chit did you start by understanding the nature of thought? Or did you attemtl to get somewhere before figuring out thoughts hold on the ending of psychological time? Most people like myself seem to for years use time as a means to end itself. Then maybe they see that they have been going in circles. Then they start to look at time. I’m saying if this is relayed more commonly we as consciousness wouldn’t have to go through that. 

[Jack River]

38 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

I've noticed that so many people get triggered by this type of 'talk', why? (Referring to faceless, jack etc)

The means we take to be free and the “me” are the same. Me=the means as in method/technique/system. So if I question the means that you want to take or have taken I am really questioning “you”. You see how that works? The “me” is defensive. The me is its Content. Content being everything it knows and uses to get “somewhere” psychologically. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@Charlotte same thing as questioning someone’s religion. They feel attacked. Fear sets in then they defend. It’s all the self image protecting what it has invented. Which is thought inventing the me. Totally gnarly dude. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

I feel freedom would be common without having to dissolve conditioning at all. We would start out aware of this conditioning. Awareness would eventually become inherent in conciousness. But if we limit consciousness by saying it is necessary to suffer to end suffering we will not change that pattern. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River