Concentration vs. Awareness in Mindfulness Meditation

[WelcometoReality]

@FredFred Different states come and go. Those are not problems. But what is it that want to hold on to different states?

[Charlotte]

@Jack River  I get that Jack but aren't we all here to cut out the bullshit? To be aware of our triggers and why they happen? (I'm not triggered by this I'm referring other). I thought people WANTED to talk and hear about this, this is why I'm confused ?

4 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I feel freedom would be common without having to dissolve conditioning at all

But then it wouldn't be this fun ?

Do you recommend any video's to watch jack please

[who chit]

This pic metaphorically shows what happens when starting with the observer seeing through it and realizing the true, empty observer.

Object ,here is the world of thought
False self ,is the self we presume to be,playing itself as separate from object thought. It's the illusory "I" or "me".
True Self, is the true, unseen, empty, aware observer/witness,that shines when the False self is seen through.

In the beginning it is believed that the I we think we are, is observing thought,objects. With persistent observation,the presumed two, "me" and "thought", eventually collapse,revealing the true, inpercieveable witness/ Self, from which all phenomena is seen.









 

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

To be aware of our triggers and why they happen

Fosho. Understanding thought/ “the me” gets into all that. 

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, who chit said:

This pic metaphorically shows what happens when starting with the observer seeing through it and realizing the true, empty observer.

Object ,here is the world of thought
False self ,is the self we presume to be,playing itself as separate from object thought. It's the illusory "I" or "me".
True Self, is the true, unseen, empty, aware observer/witness,that shines when the False self is seen through.

In the beginning it is believed that the I we think we are, is observing thought,objects. With persistent observation,the presumed two, "me" and "thought", eventually collapse,revealing the true, inpercieveable witness/ Self, from which all phenomena is seen.









 

Only problem is the self can invent the idea of the true self. That’s why to avoid the trap of invention/thought we can stay with false self and object. Understand that in its totality ends that. That ends the movement of the known. Then there is space for the unknown/ground of being. But that image/metaphor is cool dude. Awareness sees the whole. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@Charlotte anyone that mirrors the phenomena of thought/self/reality is good to listen to. I like robdl and faceless which is like krishnamurtis mirroring. I’m sure others do this too. Someone who shares what can be seen within experience itself really helps.  Because then you are really learning by observing yourself. Learning about the entire experience of self. Which includes all the problems we have. But we don’t want to try and learn about anything beyond time/self. Because that leads to illusion. We only know what we know. That of thought. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@who chit to me there is no “true self” until time ends actually...Otherwise it’s all an assumption and invention. If we didn’t have knowledge of the the big self then it wouldn t be assumed. So the dissolving of time movement reveals the nameless.  ‘If’ there is an ending of the veil of thought/me then we will see what is beyond. Or if there is a beyond. But we cannot assume. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[Charlotte]

@Jack River I like them both too, they're awesome. Faceless has pointed me in a direction which then I was able to see the illusion for myself through experience. My biggest experience has been with fear. Big fears and also small usually unnoticed fears.

I've then moved on to psychological suffering and why we try to escape it. 

My problem is... I seem to observe thought/the self daily and I watch in ways there are resistance/escapism but I want to get deeper into it and I don't know how ?

I fully agree with...

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

But we don’t want to try and learn about anything beyond time/self. Because that leads to illusion

I've already fallen into this trap numerous times. 

[who chit]

24 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@who chit did you start by understanding the nature of thought? Or did you attemtl to get somewhere before figuring out thoughts hold on the ending of psychological time? Most people like myself seem to for years use time as a means to end itself. Then maybe they see that they have been going in circles. Then they start to look at time. I’m saying if this is relayed more commonly we as consciousness wouldn’t have to go through that. 

Through Kriya and witnessing,the veil was seen through. Trying to understand thoughts themselves did not interest me,because thoughts were just thoughts. The fact they were persistent,and there was a way to go beyond them,is what lead me to seek. There's absolutely no way to know the "I" is also a thought,until one actually realizes/experiences it for themselves. I knew thoughts were mostly shit, but had no idea that what I presumed, and was taught, was me, was also part of that shit, lol. Doesn't really matter if one is told a thousand times anyway.
Waking up or realizing experientialy is the only way. The only way. Until then, it's just more shit piled on to the other shit one has already gathered. And that's a lot of shit bro.

[who chit]

17 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Only problem is the self can invent the idea of the true self.

Of course. It all means shit until there's the actual seeing of it. It can be called "Buttnugget",but Butnugget won't mean shit either until there's the seeing,or more appropriately,the Being of it. Thought self invents all kinds of spastic shit. That's it's job.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

like them both too, they're awesome. Faceless has pointed me in a direction which then I was able to see the illusion for myself through experience. My biggest experience has been with fear. Big fears and also small usually unnoticed fears.

Me too. Understanding Fear was the biggest help for me. I spent all day understanding all the hidden fears that were disguised. This lead to awareness of psychological seeking. The awareness seems to end it. 

 

7 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

My problem is... I seem to observe thought/the self daily and I watch in ways there are resistance/escapism but I want to get deeper into it and I don't know how ?

 

I understand. You have gone into thought and how it is directly related to the the arise of thought?

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, who chit said:

Through Kriya and witnessing,the veil was seen through. Trying to understand thoughts themselves did not interest me,because thoughts were just thoughts. The fact they were persistent,and there was a way to go beyond them,is what lead me to seek. There's absolutely no way to know the "I" is also a thought,until one actually realizes/experiences it for themselves. I knew thoughts were mostly shit, but had no idea that what I presumed, and was taught, was me, was also part of that shit, lol. Doesn't really matter if one is told a thousand times anyway.
Waking up or realizing experientialy is the only way. The only way. Until then, it's just more shit piled on to the other shit one has already gathered. And that's a lot of shit bro.

Fosho man. The falsity of self can be seen only when it is seen holistically. Which means not a verbal/intellectual understanding but truth sees the fact of it. This is intelligence that sees. 

[Jack River]

10 minutes ago, who chit said:

Buttnugget

Lolo 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[who chit]

8 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

My problem is... I seem to observe thought/the self daily and I watch in ways there are resistance/escapism but I want to get deeper into it and I don't know how ?

This is common when starting out observing,because you're using the very thing you're trying to observe. And it,itself is not silent and very active. Jack,Faceless,robdl, and the guy's abhor the word meditation,but I would ten times over recommend at least a 5-10 minute meditation everyday to build inner silence and quietness of mind, for effective observation. And many of the more popular die-hard "no practice needed" guru's are re-incorporating simple meditation into their program. I guess they'e finally realizing that the "don't do shit" mantra is a hard sell.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Outer said:

 

Lol. Quantum leep. Nice one dude. But just because you don’t get it yet doesn’t mean everyone else is retarded. 

 

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, who chit said:

Jack,Faceless,robdl, and the guy's abhor the word meditation

Hey dude lol. Meditation is awsome. But it really starts when we stop moving in a certain direction, or in time. 

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Outer said:

No one's going to teach you anything.

It's your universe.

Practice and see for yourself.

No one is going to teach anything is right. Looking to thought won’t cut it. 

So why do you say practice. Shit doesn’t make sense dude. I have read your posts man. They are very confused. You haven’t seen holistically yet. You say to practice, but what do you think practicing is?, could it be the application of thought? You are caught in the trap of trying to cultivate psychological freedom. That’s not how it works man.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jack River

[who chit]

Oh,I have nothing against Face,Jack,rob,and what they are saying is primarily true. Witnessing/observation does  work. I just don't think it's being taken into account just how active a person's mind can be,and how strongly the attachment to it is. In my case, I observed thought many times for years without any redeemable benefits. Silencing,quieting the inner mind through Kriya made all the difference in the world.

From my understanding Face already had what you would call a quieter mind,and one moment of this observation was all it took. That is not a common thing to happen. Most have to put a lot of time into this for something significant to happen.

 

[Jack River]

What are we practice?? That of thought right? Well that is getting caught in the thought loop dude. 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, who chit said:

Oh,I have nothing against Face,Jack,rob,and what they are saying is primarily true. Witnessing/observation does  work. I just don't think it's being taken into account just how active a person's mind can be,and how strongly the attachment to it is. In my case, I observed thought many times for years without any redeemable benefits. Silencing,quieting the inner mind through Kriya made all the difference in the world.

From my understanding Face already had what you would call a quieter mind,and one moment of this observation was all it took. That is not a common thing to happen. Most have to put a lot of time into this for something significant to happen.

 

I was just joking dude. Your awsome. 

Faceless said it wasn’t natural for him. He suffered a lot. But he said one day he just stoped resisting out of nowhere. I’m not sure about robdl thought. Anyway it is better to atleast be aware of this illusion rather than not. So in that sense the means/way isn’t all bad.