Question about the nature of thought

[MM1988]

Its clear that if you try to think of nothing like during meditation random thoughts will come if you want it or not.

But why does it seem that you can take conscious control of thought when you want to think of something specific and direct your mind?

So do you have control over mind or do you not ? Mind at my level of consciousness seeems like a tool to me, a tool you can pick up but when you lay it down it doesnt turn off and still creates a lot of background noise.

[Shin]

The only thing you control is what you focus on.

[Rilles]

22 minutes ago, Shin said:

The only thing you control is what you focus on.

Agreed. But you can also change the basis of your thoughts through a few months of contemplation, if youre always negative you can subconsciously change that. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Rilles

[Charlotte]

2 hours ago, MM1988 said:

But why does it seem that you can take conscious control of thought when you want to think of something specific and direct your mind?

I'd answer this by labelling it 'centred focus.' Just as you would if you were watching a movie that intrigued you or picking up a book you wanted to read. 

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Agreed. But you can also change the basis of your thoughts through a few months of contemplation, if youre always negative you can subconsciously change that. 

Agreed also. 

 

[Thesingularity]

Its the nature of mind that wants to be active or busy. The brain keep itself active as like any other part of body the rule is of use it or lose it so the random thought that emerges is like screen savour of a computer and that to preserve and avoid loss.  When you think you use outer layer of brain to use logic and rational thinking and that direct the thought. 

[Torkys]

IME You can't control the mind. The only thing that makes you think that you can control the mind is identifying with it. If you observe it for long enough, you will see that it has a life of its own.

[Hellspeed]

With the focus on breath, you can put thoughts on second place, but they will rewind as a broken disc and probably go another path with the attention on the inner movements. Don't worry about it. 

[Telepresent]

Follow the thoughts and feelings back. Are there assumptions about who or what is causing the thoughts / feelings? Are those assumptions accurate? If you meet an "I don't know", can you explore it and work it out?  Or come up with a new hypothesis to explore?

Questions, not answers. That's the way

Edited October 13, 2018 by Telepresent

[GeoLura]

@MM1988 "monkey mind" and "conscious thinking" are both happening without free will. Notice that even if you're thinking consciously, you don't know the next thought. It always just pops up automatically.

[Jack River]

Or the illusion of freewill is the breeding ground for compulsive thinking. Those thoughts that arise automatically are still a reaction and response of memory. All thought that arises is of the known. A reaction that causes another reaction. When that illusion of control/desire/will stops you will be amazed how thoughts psychologically just stop altogether. It’s totally excellent dudes.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@MM1988 this is an awsome thread dude. Do you realize how deep this thread should go? Let’s see if this thread gets the kind of attention it deserves. ?

[Charlotte]

59 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Or the illusion of freewill is the breeding ground for compulsive thinking. Those thoughts that arise automatically are still a reaction and response of memory. All thought that arises is of the known. A reaction that causes another reaction. When that illusion of control/desire/will stops you will be amazed how thoughts psychologically just stop altogether. It’s totally excellent dudes.

♥️

 

[Jack River]

@Charlotte ?

[Charlotte]

@Jack River Loving your avatar pic duuuuude ?

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

When that illusion of control/desire/will stops you will be amazed how thoughts psychologically just stop altogether

P.s this is exactly what I've been doing and observing. Still in the early process though 

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Charlotte said:

Loving your avatar pic duuuuude ?

Yours is awsome too. you look very down to earth and kind. My kind of dudet

3 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

this is exactly what I've been doing and observing. Still in the early process though 

The Nonconflicting way is totally excellent. That is exactly what the self hates. When it is not able to feed itself. I’m with you?. 

[Charlotte]

14 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Yours is awsome too. you look very down to earth and kind. My kind of dudet

Thank you!  

14 minutes ago, Jack River said:

The Nonconflicting way is totally excellent. That is exactly what the self hates. When it is not able to feed itself. I’m with you

When it is not able to feed itself... EXACTLY!

??

What other ways are there? ?

Edited October 13, 2018 by Charlotte

[Jack River]

9 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

Thank you!  

When it is not able to feed itself... EXACTLY!

??

What other ways are there? ?

??fosho ?

[Forestluv]

@MM1988 This gets to the heart of choice.

As you said, sometimes thoughts just seem to appear from nowhere. Yet other times there seems to be a “chooser” in control. I’ve done meditation sessions in which I look for a “chooser”. I haven’t found one.

Also consider: if brain activity scans could identify your thoughts before you were aware of them, would that influence your view?

[DrewNows]

The self image/persona is formed via thoughts

The creation is a false division or duality, simply an illusion

the illusion acts to manipulate ‘what is’ creating all sorts of psychological conflict 

This veil of thought changes our perception of reality which creates all sorts of strife and limitations 

 

[lmfao]

@MM1988

On 13/10/2018 at 7:46 AM, MM1988 said:

But why does it seem that you can take conscious control of thought when you want to think of something specific and direct your mind?

So do you have control over mind or do you not ? Mind at my level of consciousness seeems like a tool to me, a tool you can pick up but when you lay it down it doesnt turn off and still creates a lot of background noise.

But let me ask you, from where does the intention/want to think of something specific come from? Lets suppose I've decided that I'm going to keep on thinking about the names of different cities. How did that decision arise? Consider how much control ''you'' really have in your mind choosing to (focus on)/(think about) a particular thing.

Be mindful of your present moment experience, you should start to notice how spontaneous and groundless reality is. In your present moment, there is no past or causality. There is this present moment experience and you've done nothing to create it. For as long as you can maintain high levels of awareness you will be in a state of " Wu Wei " to a degree, where all action you take is effortless due to you having little resistance. A thought related to Wu Wei, If someone is to truly live and breathe non-duality they should find no amount of exertion of their physical body to be mentally fatiguing because the distinction between self and other is gone. That's why exercise and discomfort is good for enlightenment work imo as well if you are mindfull of pain and push yourself.

Edited October 14, 2018 by lmfao