Why is enlightenment so “slippery”

[SageModeAustin]

@Mu_ I experienced pretty much everything I described.  When I say infinite intelligence I'm referring to the universe and all life forms created by it, but I don't believe the past and future exist, only the present moment does.

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Good.  That sounds like Stage Turquoise metaphysics.  If you live that, very good.  What you wanna be doing now for everything in your Thought and Experience is to ask to what extent is this real, to what extent is this actual?  Try to find out the grab bag of all stuff that the Mind sort of assumes is there but isn't actually there.

Interesting insight, I have been doing that for negative/self sabotaging thoughts or anything that triggers me in general. 

I imagine pulling the thought up from its roots, question that thought's existence (where it came from), intent (its purpose), rationality (is it logical or not) and then deduce it viciously and intelligently until I find the source and crush it to dust.  

I've been doing this with all thoughts that I deem not actual, or lacking actuality. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by SageModeAustin

[SageModeAustin]

@non_nothing I really like the idea of whats you after your enlightened, thats an interesting question. 

[Mu_]

15 hours ago, SageModeAustin said:

@Mu_ I experienced pretty much everything I described.  When I say infinite intelligence I'm referring to the universe and all life forms created by it, but I don't believe the past and future exist, only the present moment does.

Interesting insight, I have been doing that for negative/self sabotaging thoughts or anything that triggers me in general. 

I imagine pulling the thought up from its roots, question that thought's existence (where it came from), intent (its purpose), rationality (is it logical or not) and then deduce it viciously and intelligently until I find the source and crush it to dust.  

I've been doing this with all thoughts that I deem not actual, or lacking actuality. 

I see, Is it your experience now that there is no future or past or is it just a belief at this point?   Also whats changed since your enlightening moment that makes you feel like you lost it?  Wouldn't your experience now be of the infinite intelligence happening as what ever is taking place in the now believed/felt experience of loosing it?  How could the actuality of the recognition not be happening?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Mu_

[cetus]

12 hours ago, SageModeAustin said:

@non_nothing I really like the idea of whats you after your enlightened, thats an interesting question. 

@SageModeAustin  What remains even in your absence? When you are no longer "you".

[cetus]

@SageModeAustin  As often as you can let go of the idea of a "you" being at a fixed location and eventually you will break the perpetuation of the illusion.

 

[SageModeAustin]

@Mu_ The present moment is the only proof I have.  Unless you build me a time machine where I can go back into the past or future then I will believe it exists, but for now there is just no evidence it exists besides in your head.

8 hours ago, Mu_ said:

I see, Is it your experience now that there is no future or past or is it just a belief at this point?   Also whats changed since your enlightening moment that makes you feel like you lost it?  Wouldn't your experience now be of the infinite intelligence happening as what ever is taking place in the now believed/felt experience of loosing it?  How could the actuality of the recognition not be happening?

Hmmm.  Yeah an individual can still be enlightened as long as they are aware of what’s going on in the moment, even if they might deem themselves to have “lost it.”  This is actually a really powerful point, wow o.0

 

 

[SageModeAustin]

@cetus56

3 hours ago, cetus56 said:

@SageModeAustin  As often as you can let go of the idea of a "you" being at a fixed location and eventually you will break the perpetuation of the illusion.

 

What do you mean?  

Lets say you are sitting in your car.  How can you let this go, when you are in fact sitting in your car?

[lmfao]

@SageModeAustin Why is water wet? 

[cetus]

13 hours ago, SageModeAustin said:

@cetus56

What do you mean?  

Lets say you are sitting in your car.  How can you let this go, when you are in fact sitting in your car?

@SageModeAustin You never experianced anything trancendent of the body/mind location? 

How did Buddha attain enlightenment if in fact he was just sitting on the hard ground under a Bodhi tree the whole time?

*A word of caution- when driving a car please stay well focused on your body/mind location at all times for safety sakes. 

What exactly was this "enlightenment" you experianced? Did all sense of self dissolve into infinite beingness with no fixed location?

[GeoLura]

@SageModeAustin  It takes alot of effort to get away from egos gravitational pull. It's far easier to fall back to safe and familiar life as an ego. Ego is sneaky and you'll probably develop a spiritual ego after few glimpses, thinking you know it all and are above all these "ignorant people" Can't say for sure that it'll happen, but i was so sure i was "enlightened" multiple times. But no worries, just keep at it. Psychedelics can help alot, if you feel like you're stuck.

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, GeoLura said:

It takes alot of effort to get away from egos gravitational pull.

Effort and the ego are the same. 

[GeoLura]

@Jack River  You'll need enormous effort, when you're still living in the illusion of free will. Of course there's no-one-size-fits-all plan in this work, i can only speak from experience.

[Mu_]

15 hours ago, SageModeAustin said:

@Mu_ The present moment is the only proof I have.  Unless you build me a time machine where I can go back into the past or future then I will believe it exists, but for now there is just no evidence it exists besides in your head.

Hmmm.  Yeah an individual can still be enlightened as long as they are aware of what’s going on in the moment, even if they might deem themselves to have “lost it.”  This is actually a really powerful point, wow o.0

 

 

Don't get lost in idea of "now" moments either.  This can be just a seeking of some experiential idea you have of what the moment looks like.  keep going back to the recognition you had.....anything thats going on at all times no matter the apparent "now moment" is infinite intelligence unfolding.  This may be a hard process, because at some point, you'll start shedding your identity and this transformation process can be a shit show inside, so be prepared, but dont expect it either, for some its easy.

[Jack River]

@GeoLura what is this effort? 

Isnt effort a product or expression of this “freewill”?

Edited October 13, 2018 by Jack River

[GeoLura]

@Jack River  Well, for example if you aren't conscious of your breath and body 24/7 already, you'll need to use force and effort to become more mindful. Of course it's an illusion that it's you doing all of that, but it doesn't matter. You don't exist! When the ego illusion drops away, illusion of effort drops aswell.

[Jack River]

From what I saw The energy is effort is very limited. When this effort was dropped energy was huge. Then it all came about on its own

[Jack River]

20 minutes ago, GeoLura said:

Well, for example if you aren't conscious of your breath and body 24/7 already, you'll need to use force and effort to become more mindful. Of course it's an illusion that it's you doing all of that, but it doesn't matter. You don't exist! When the ego illusion drops away, illusion of effort drops aswell.

Only thought directs attention to the breath and body. Thought seems to direct attention/awareness to certain areas. That is self/thought concentrating on certain parts. That’s how it works. That is also conflict sustaining. Effort=conflict and conflict keeps the ego/self moving. Ultimately fear resisting what is. To me effort never leads to the ending of time/self. Maybe we see eventually that effort is not the way and drop that, but as far as using fear to end fear, that is a no go. 

Note...effort=force=concentrated attention/awareness=fear=conflict=self=time. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Effortlessness/choicelessness doesn’t seem to direct attention in a specific area. It observes or is aware/attentive of all inner and outer. There is no particular direction or occupied and fixed motive. It’s pretty gnarly dude?

Edited October 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Plus only effortless/choiceless awareness can observe all day without break. It takes an energy that is doesn’t get lost in the process of contradicting desire/motive.  

[GeoLura]

@Jack River  Yeah, it's all very tricky and varies from person to person. For me it went like this: I started with effort, got to a point where the fear was too much. After a small break i started to meditate multiple hours a day, after some months i got so exhausted, i just surrendered and that's when i got my first real glimpse. So in that sense effort IS needed.