Why is conceptualising bad?

[Forestluv]

There is no more "wrong" about conceptualization than about birds chirping. 

Conceptualization is loads of fun. I love it! I also like attending concerts and football games. It's all fun stuff. Yet, at the end of the day - it's just conceptualization. 

I have experienced a level deeper than conceptualization - where all language and concepts break down. Once I returned to the conceptual world, I could see concepts from another perspective - they are just concepts. If I get attached to concepts and identify with concepts - *then* I become more delusional and my spiritual progress slows down.

The highest value I see for concepts is as a framework to support direct experience. Years ago, if I had a mystical experience, I blew it off as "whoo whoo" because I didn't have the conceptual framework to support integration. More recently, when I've had mystical experiences - I return and think "Ahhhhh, so *that's* what Adyashanti was trying to explain. I *get* it now". I no longer blow it off as "whoo whoo".

And everything I wrote above are just concepts. It aint IT. Fun stuff  

[B_Naz]

@Serotoninluv Thank you, i feel a little alone (another concept lol) with these ideas in my when I observe people's answers on the forums. But It is very fun. I think I may misinterpreting what people sometimes say on the forums 

@Shiva Ahh... You are right, What you say is true, but one of the most profound ways doing actually stopping the doing is observation. This links with conceptualisation because the observation can lead to conceptualising. It's why I strongly follow it.

I will take all people's input into consideration. You are all 100%, just need to contemplate 

Thank you all

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

@Serotoninluv Thank you, i feel a little alone (another concept lol) with these ideas in my when I observe people's answers on the forums. But It is very fun. I think I may misinterpreting what people sometimes say on the forums 

From a dual perspective, the deeper I go - the more alone I feel. There are less people I can share the deep insights with. They just can't relate.

[Jack River]

This seeing, which is truth dissolving falsity/distortion/conceptual screen isn’t the result of practice, exercise, development, ambition/desire. All that is what drives this thought/conceptualizing/distortion. This is psychological time which is fear/desire/“me”. When time as BECOMING stops then you will see that you didn’t DO anything to SEE. Time cannot undo itself dudes. And anything to do with practice, excercise, development ambition/desire is time based.

Pretty gnarly when this was seen. It was insight/truth that saw this all in one instance. Not a gradual cultivated realization. That’s why it’s such a mind bender dudes

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

 Cool thing is we feel that there is division between truth and reality from the standpoint of reality. But actually reality is a function of truth. Pretty cool ? 

[DrewNows]

Lots of great points made here! @Jack River This is effortless for you bro!

Lets give some credit to our complex mind. Without conceptualizing, we would not be human and the joy we have in learning and accumulating knowledge would be impossible. 

2 hours ago, Shiva said:

So, if you're the one doing it, you can also stop doing it.

However, we have gotten so used to conceptualizing that we really don't know anything else. It's like a bad habit. Breaking an old habit is always difficult, especially when you've been doing it right from birth. The way to break this habit it is by practising a lot! Hence the hand-exercise.

Lets not misunderstand "stopping" thought-self as there is no effort in its ending. All that is necessary is the observation and understanding of psychological time. The mind dividing the experience through creating the experiencer 

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

When time as BECOMING stops then you will see that you didn’t DO anything to SEE. Time cannot undo itself dudes. And anything to do with practice, excercise, development ambition/desire is time based.

Precisely dude. it sure is an awesome realization! 

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

Pretty gnarly when this was seen. It was insight/truth that saw this all in one instance. Not a gradual cultivated realization. That’s why it’s such a mind bender dudes

Would you say the realization deepens? 

Edited October 11, 2018 by DrewNows

[universe]

@Shiva Loving those crystal clear answers

@B_Naz I dont know if you've already watched and understood this video but its also related to your question

 

[Joseph Maynor]

From my Journal:

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONTEMPLATION WORK VS. MENTAL MASTURBATION IN ENLIGHTENMENT WORK

Contemplation Work is necessary in Enlightenment Work.  There's a difference between Contemplation Work and mental masturbation.  Mental Masturbation is Thought focused away from self-observation.  Contemplation is Thought focused towards self-observation.  Contemplation Work is always directed 'in here' whereas mental masturbation is always directed 'out there'.  For example, the question "What is Mind?" can both be Contemplation Work and mental masturbation depending on the intention of how it's asked.  If you're looking for your own Mind, that's Contemplation Work.  If you're trying to come up with some philosophical account of Mind that is not connected to you doing self-observation, that's mental masturbation.  Ditto for 'What is Reality?'  -- this can both be Contemplation Work and mental masturbation depending on the intention of how the question is asked.  If you're self-observing the reality that you see in your own Experience, that's Contemplation Work.  If you're trying to define 'reality' and aren't even interested in connecting it to your own Experience, that's mental masturbation.  Ditto for 'What is Thought?', 'What is Truth?', 'What is Ego?', 'What is the True Self?', 'What is Maya?', 'What is Experience?', and even 'What is Contemplation?' -- all these questions can be Contemplation Work or mental masturbation depending on the intention of how they're asked and how they're treated.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

57 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Would you say the realization deepens? 

I wouldn’t actually call it realization. But a holistic seeing. The seeing without concept in the psychological department seems to become more and more default. As in the majority of the time there is an actual seeing withot concept. And the function of thought comes in when needed to do somthing.