Soto Zen retreat + insights / reflections from lsd trips

[ValiantSalvatore]

Hey,

so, while searching and browsing a bit through the forum I did not find a post related to a zen retreat. Before writing this post I was not sure if it would be beneficial or interesting for other people to view this. Yet, I tend to write (post) mostly because I enjoy writing and feedback, also it is a healthy way for me to express myself. 

So, this is going to be story based since I can recollect most of the things what I wanted to express in an arbitiary manner. So , a word of caution for being unsystematic / not orderly. 

This year I did my first real retreat in flesh and blood for two weeks at a soto zen tempel in France. I did a couple of online retreats now with the home pratice programm from Shinzen Young and was quite excited to see a zen master for the first time in real life. To compare their teachings and see their similarities since I am now following Shinzens "teaching" now actively for 1 year instead of testing technique over technique, which I still do to a degree.

When I arrived at the monastery I was like so often to late. Thus, missing the introduction and the welcome dinner (literally it was in the evening..). Consequentially, I did not do much that day and went to bed walking around the tempel a bit and unpacking my luggage, taking care of small necessities, things I forgot and making sure I have them. The following day we had Zazen so I will describe the life at the zen tempel first, for the total of the two weeks to present an overview:

First week: 2 times zazen 1,30h each session including walking meditation (kinhin) for 20 min.

Second week for approx 3 days. : 3 times zazen same procedure

Second week the last approx. 4 days: 4 times zazen same procedure 

Each day was structured as follows:

-> Waking up at 6 am 

-> Zazen following chanting of some prayers

-> breakfast in silence + small break (Genmai japanese rice soup, each morning which was tasty)

-> Samu (community work / joint work in case that makes more sense)

-> Lunch

-> Samu

-> Dinner

-> Lunch

-> bed rest / bed time 

In total the retreat was not that meditation intensive, yet you are supposed to pratice while doing samu which a few people tried, yet there was still an air of meditativeness around since the monks there worked too and had to check if people do their work correctly.

What suprised me the most was that the whole monastary was autonomous, they planted their own food, vegetables and herbs. So, the work around the monastery included mostly working outside in the area of the monastary. Cleaning, gatherhing herbs, or manure taking care of weeds and the service - preparing food, tea, knitting and gathering fruits for deserts. That was kinda cool for me to see what an autonomous structure would look like or self-sustaining. 

That is it about the structure or how people live in a zen monastery here in Europe day in day out besides events. 

Now, the people there were mostly beginners at the first week this was an introduction to life in a monastary. At the end of the retreat are moving closer to the end of the retreat, more experienced people came. What was interesting for me was eating in silence, I tend to dislike talking about food analyzing it, to pass a comment about it's taste or how I am feeling. Which is all nice and such, yet I tend to prefer to eat in silence, to enjoy food and use that as an time to be present or pratice a meditation technique at least... breakfast. So, we all had to bring a bowl with us and if not they will give you one, when we sit down to eat, we will unpack the bowl the the cutlery and chant / sing a prayer / song name it as you want it and sit down and eat, sitting on a zafu or some padded thing on the floor and at a thin and long wodden table which streches itself almost through the entire room. Like an H the tables were placed with the - part of the H on top of the H. Dunno, I'll stop. 

So, we had to unpack everything and sit down and while you eat they come by and serve the food, water, tea and you have to clean your bowl after you eat at the table with a large bucket and throw the water that they have brought to you and you have cleaned your bowl with into this big bucket and pass it on to the next living being next to you. After that is done you are finished. Still eating in silence was so odd with so many people, trying not to make noise with your spoon, seeing how greedy people are with their food or critically pecking around in their bowl not focusing on their pratice while they where eating or simply going on with it as if they were bored and needed to be entertained / wanted to do smth. Still, many people where just focused on not making any nosies and thinking about other people if they want food, since we were not allowed to talk. 

The unpacking of the bowl annoyed me the most since my tissue was always dirty and I never know if I could have a new one which you could have and I did exchange the dirty tissue near the end of the retreat. Which was another "theme" for me and others.. at the retreat what are the rules ? What are we allowed to do ? And is all of this religious or not ? 

Well, most people there where beginners like myself which annoys me a lot, but they never meditated and were most likely searching for a way to deal with mundane stress. So, I did not talk to many of the people there because I did not see a good opportunity to exchange experiences and if that is not possible I rather talk to peers or did nothing, which I did most of the time during breaks, sitting on the bench, applying meditation techniques see, hear feel, and enjoying the silence or the presence of people there without being involved or retreating from them and applying the techniques while being vigilant. 

The participents of the retreat were mostly from Europe, there was one guy from the U.S and most of the people there where either French or German. There was one girl from sweden and one from britian. Which evoked the next question or problem what Leo also talks about and is simply a theme in "consciousness work.." the problem of language. Who speaks which language ? What assumptions do I have about this person ? Why does language create duality ? How can I accurately assess my perception of the enviroment / people / situations using language or being the recipient of some form of communication ?

This is also one thing the teacher talked about and which I remembered talking creates duality. And now I really dislike talking because people and myself included tend to want to see the things only in their viewpoint and I tend to seek first to understand then to be understood. You get the point. So, it is frustraiting to see all of this duality / politics going on even at a zen temple which Leo also mentioned and if I remember correctly he also said in one video that people at a zen temple are quiet unconscious and I imagined people to be way way way more conscious there. It was different, yet the people who visited the tempel were mostly beginners so there where not many high consciousness people their. Besides the nuns and monks which some of them even if they were enlightend seemed to be quite unconscious but, I can't assess that since I am not enlightend. The master there was a real tourquise zen master which I loved the way he talked was very zen, also very soto zen, slow and epic  even when it was in french it had the quality of a real zen master no doubt. His voice made you feel equanimous and when I once looked at him to check spiral dynamic stages to see if he was doing smth. similar he seemed to maintain contact with his eyes while he was talking and I looked around the room to see if anyone else seems to experience reality in that manner, things I asked myself during lsd trips.. and it seemed like I hit stage turquoise or what ever that may mean I just experienced an non-dual perception for sometime with thoughts going on but reality looked different and I was affirmed more or less by a zen master. 

What was also quite cool for me all of the more serious participents who came from a dojo studied something tech related. Which was motivating for me to continue both studying and meditating / pursuit of enlightenment. I talked to one from this dojo he was a teacher ( history and french) and he meditated for 25 years, it still amazed me how much he held on to his status on all of this status games, male chimps or w/e play. At one point he wanted to out argue or take on the leadership role when the zen master was talking and he caused chaos because he did not respect him in that moment, but he could have helped. The zen master leaned against the wall and made himself smaller since he was quite tall 1,90m approx. which made the history teacher feel uncomfortable. Still, he was a man with a heart let's say. 

It amazes me how people think monks are stupid or not smart or if that is a believe people in general have or the monks have about themselves partily. It is very difficult for me to see a monk as a dumb person.

During the meditation sessions we did zazen which is just sitting or do nothing or shikantaza the method without a method. It was quite odd to meditate for a minimum of 3 hours a day for two weeks, after I tripped on LSD at least 3-5 times before and to incoperate some "insights", "perceptions", hunches, intuitions or ideas about reality and to check if they are phony or if I can really trust me awarness. This is fundamentally the only thing I currently know and experience I can trust 100%, yet it is so difficult. As an example I had to work with a nun quite often which is similar to my mom from her personality, so I kind of knew what to say and what not to do / to do in order to not cause any trouble and also help her. When we sat a the dojo she was looking for a word and I knew it annoys her so much that she wanted to know, because she was extremely curious for someone her age imo. I wanted to tell her and she looked at me with an expression that everything is fine, I had to almost cry that I can trust something so simply and that I constantly test my own awarness. 

The zen master also talked about different types of consciousness and that basically that they are 8 types of consciousness and various traditions and such, yet he was talking about 8 and reduced it to 5, because ultimately and that is the sense I have you still did nothing, you just sat and when a zen master can take you into an non-dual state or deepen your pratice, any teaching is unnessecsary to a degree. Still, guidance helps yes imo. Back to the 5 types of consciousness he talked about the senses , sight, sound , touch, smell, emotions. To be aware of them an still you just sat time went by and sometimes at the end of a zazen I had this magical child like feeling again, that everything is mystical and life is fundamentally awe-inspiring and mysterious in a positive, curious sense. The same feelings I had while living in China which makes me love anything related to asia even more ! Espeically, japan and china.

I was especially curious to see how a zen master acts in accordance with his surroundings after I tripped on 1P-LSD and everything seemed to react to me I sat down at 4 am and meditated till 6, it was pointless to use any technique (see,hear,feel / mindfulness which I usually do) because awarness overtook my state of perceiving. I was sitting in my chair where I usually meditate and started the app insight timer and listend to some meditative music which altered the experience dramatically, I felt first that I can actually sit, without a technique and be aware of my surroundings, my state of consciousness, my body and at one point I could not tell anymore if I listend to the meditation music or was lost in thought, which still occured. I started hearing the birds chirping and somehow this triggered in me the question, What is nature ? What is intelligence ? Is nature intelligent ? Why can't I let go of intelligence ? What is a system? Is an organism a system ? What would happen if everyone in the world would be a systems thinker / stage yellow (sort of asked that ) and I kept asking these questions till I received feedback. And I don't know why but during this whole tripp I regared myself as an engineer and I kept asking what could be done to make this a system sort of asked that and regarded everything as parts which make up a whole.

So, while I sat down I was drawn deeper and deeper into these inquiries wanting to have an answer and I was drawn deeper and deeper and it felt like I received answer I considered myself as a system which lives in congruency with other systems which included nature and nature aka the birds chirping in the backyard gave me feedback since they themselves ( " apparently according to Eckart Tolle and such) are enlightend or closer to enlightenment / true nature. It was insane it felt they gave an answer, that I am a system, they are a system, and I felt bad that most people do not care or have the capacity to care about something so simple like a little bird. After I was taken deeper I thought about race and what could be the insight of every race and then to dive deep into that thought, at the end I felt like I am an indian yogi who was so blissed out that doing nothing and abiding in that feeling of bliss is that best thing to do. Since, humanity is in one way or another doomed. Also, a bunch of other stuff I felt like i was almost transported to a different planet, my sense of self completely vanishing almost. Also, I was so angry at one point that I could not properly meditate because of some personal stuff. That I felt so pathetic in a good sense, that I never respected, nature, meditation or the power of consciousness or awarness but mostly the meditative pratice. That I grew so much and matured in terms of what is respectable during this process. It was and still is nuts, I am still feel like shit because I am not practicing as rigorious as I did. Skipping now almost two months maybe just one this year. While never missing a day besides 3 during two years. 

The feeling of this whole experince was Yugen if I may be so free as to use this from Leos blog  or not.. 

I am still pissed that I can't sit in a lotus postion and still amazed that I can't admire the posture of zen masters in order to be ONLY inspired. 

So, after this experience I was quite interested to how a zen master reacts to sounds if people really get direct messages from consciousness and how can you distinguish that from thought, even though I felt like he acted upon the enviroment extremely conscious and also mentioned the sounds in the background which the animals made. I am still wondering how one can be one with nature. And that this is stage turquiose and he seemed like he is .
 

 

This is the best and shortest video I could find from the master, I talked to shinzen young last year with the life pratice programm and he checked the website and the masters, I also did another retreat talking to him this year and he asked me about the name of the master and the name deshimaru which is the teacher of the guy in the video above. Rang a bell. So, this is shinzen approved for those interested lol. 

I don't speak french and this is also something which was quite interesting to observe since it is so hard to guess someones stage in spiral dynamics even when you interact with them coming back to the problem of language. I confused someone for stage blue because his english was not good, yet at the end we talked a bit because I talked to a french girl and I could see that they interacted on a green level. Also, many people there where at least green which was awesome. 

I still don't know what I have learned or what my 1P-LSD experiences amount to besides that it is fun and frightening sometimes. Yet, somehow it comes back when I do retreats that is what I notice with psychedelics. I am still a beginner and confused about the pratice, espcially now since I asked one teacher what technique should I pratice and I receive the answer just one. And the other one says as long as you develop equanimity, concentration power and sensory clarity everything is fine. The latter seems to be true at the moment, yet I question if praticing one technique hardcore will get you faster to enlightenment that is what Ken Wilber did with Soto Zen and after that he did some tibitean meditation. W/e. So, this is it I feel like my pratice or my enlightenment journey is just beginning and quiet a big task, since I finished the LP-Course and working on implementing that, even though both will not be easily done. 

Also, which annoys me is that this guy talked about genetic memory not conditioning or such but genetic memory. I downloaded the audiobook from rupert sheldrake about morphic resonance or smth.(only listened in)  like that and now there is actuallly some shit in my body which teaches me ? TF IS THAT ?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_memory_(psychology) There is a lot more but, this is enough for one post.

Edited October 11, 2018 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

@ValiantSalvatore Excellent! These are the kind of posts I wanna see more of here

You have much more to learn from LSD. You have barely licked the tail of the Ox.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Leo Gura Lol, it suprises me every time. I will see . Thanks for the reply. Sounds scary...