No Manipulation amd Do nothing the same?

[Aakash Vijayan]

Newbie here. Are they the same? If not which one is better and why?

[deci belle]

Say it yourself. Are they the same? Don't be so lazy.

Depending on your self-refinement, "better" is relative.

Speak up!

[B_Naz]

Personally, I don't see it as the same thing

Do Nothing is detaching yourself from the "Doing". You're no longer imposing any meanings, values or ideas onto the "raw" universe. The doing will filter the universe. It's more for a existential questioning/seeing

No manipulation is more about how your ego will try and benefit itself. It will manipulate you to think in certain things, or use certain things for its own gains. This is more about the practical side of your life. 

Manipulating your partner for sex since it benefits you.

Having sex with your partner without any intention or benefit, or for selfless love is different to the previous.

You shouldn't stop the manipulation but beaware of the manipulation that your ego imposes

Both are good. They are both needed. They just open different PoV

Edited October 7, 2018 by B_Naz

[Jack River]

39 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

Do Nothing is detaching yourself from the "Doing".

Or is doing nothing watching without self movement? Detachment seems to be a doing as in reaction. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@Aakash Vijayan what are “doings”? Figure that out first then you come to the other.

[Joseph Maynor]

To me they're the same.  What it means is that you're just being the atmosphere not the clouds and observing things happen.  It's you resting as Awareness.  You're just observing but not neurotically.  You're non-neurotically being Awareness.  And the reason why this is such an important practice is because that's what Enlightenment is.  Enlightenment is non-neurotically being Awareness.  Now, that's a bit of a gloss for someone not that far along the Path.  Enlightenment isn't exactly like Do Nothing Meditation, but you'll see the similarities for yourself at some point.  Don't cling to not controlling either that's a trap.  Do Nothing meditation is a resting as Awareness not an opportunity for the Ego to try to do anything.  You just watch Thought and Experience.  Don't try to do and don't try not to do, if that makes sense.  Trying to "do nothing" is Egoic and defeats the purpose of Do Nothing Meditation.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

A Path is a doing. A way as in a method/practice is a doing. Even anything of psychological becoming is a doing. Any direction of thought is a doing. The insight into this is huge. ?

Edited October 7, 2018 by Jack River

[B_Naz]

3 hours ago, Jack River said:

Or is doing nothing watching without self movement? Detachment seems to be a doing as in reaction. 

That is very true.

But observation requires detachment. This allows us to be empty of intention and to keep quiet because...

If you want to do nothing, you must not stop the mind. You want the mind to go on its course, to leave it be and to ignore it and remain as Self. This is the definition of detachment. You are no longer your thoughts. You are only a seeker of the thoughts

If a thought comes up, instead of saying I, say your identity, for instance, Jack is thinking this... This is observation. Once you understand how Jack is thinking and why he's thinking this, then you can question the seeker . I'm sure you know all of this but this is just a reminder

But very nice, I didnt even realize what I said. This should help being less bias of my mind 

Thank you so much <3 

[DrewNows]

3 hours ago, B_Naz said:

7 hours ago, Jack River said:

Or is doing nothing watching without self movement? Detachment seems to be a doing as in reaction. 

That is very true.

But observation requires detachment. This allows us to be empty of intention and to keep quiet because...

@B_Nazthe intention is to detach...therefore detachment is just another mind trick/illusion of doing.  

To understand how the mind manipulates the doing is all that is needed. An awareness to what is (illusion) will end psychological time

 

 

[B_Naz]

10 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@B_Nazthe intention is to detach...therefore detachment is just another mind trick/illusion of doing.  

To understand how the mind manipulates the doing is all that is needed. An awareness to what is (illusion) will end psychological time

 

 

Awareness is the act of detachment. when you observe at a thought like the way you describe, that is detachment. You detah from time, you detach from your thoughts, you detach from your identitys reality. All of this is a description of detachment rather than actually detaching

I was wrongnto say "to detatch". A most accurate way of representing this is describing detachment as awareness

[Jack River]

@DrewNows @B_Naz fosho dudes. Basically comes down to reaction/response. As in are we reacting with psychological knowledge/thought/time. I used that word detachment before. Awareness doesn’t attatch or detach. Both seem to be reaction based. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jack River

[B_Naz]

You are right in saying that it can be interpreted as a reaction

Is awareness part of the psychological knowledge, thought or time? I see it more as a sensory thing like how cold it is outside?

If we take this idea, then awareness is detachment without "doing "detatching and that just doesn't make sense

We gotta observe to see!!!

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, B_Naz said:

Is awareness part of the psychological knowledge, thought or time?

No this awareness means no reaction. No movement of fear distorting what is. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

If we take this idea, then awareness is detachment without "doing "detatching and that just doesn't make sense

We gotta observe to see!!!

Simply it is not acting/doing by the doer. No motive/psychological becoming of any kind. A lot of people say they practice do-nothing. That doesn’t make sense though. The Doing will be disguised. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jack River

[B_Naz]

@Jack River I like how you describe this when it can be difficult due to its nature

Can we say that all of what you said is knowledge? How do you know you're not being influenced by knowledge? Thoughts cling onto itself?

[Jack River]

23 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

Can we say that all of what you said is knowledge? How do you know you're not being influenced by knowledge? Thoughts cling onto itself?

It can be based on knowledge fosho. Thought will cling to itself for sure. But that is reaction. A good way to see if this is happening is to be able to see if we are moving within and from a place of fear. As in am I searching psychologically. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

This is what really helped me. Start with seeing fear in my daily life. 

[Nahm]

Is the dream probabilistic?

[bejapuskas]

If you see manipulation from a certain perspective, you will see how deep it actually is. If you think, that you can also manipulate yourself, than non-manipulative state and doing nothing  seem very similar... I dont know if they are the same though. Maybe doing nothing contains no manipulation.

[Jack River]

What are doings? What would qualify dudes?