Frithjof Schuon - Is maya uncreated?

[Sockrattes]

I always thought that maya came out of Atman and therefore it is our goal to get rid of it. But during my research i came across this table (translated it from german to english) and was wondering, if my assumption was even valid. According to Frithjof Schuon, Brahman Nirguana and Brahman Saguna are both the absolute and uncreated. Which means in essence Atman and Maya are both default states of our consciousness and our reality. This is a total contradiction to the assumption that our world is a game, isn't it? In my experience, samsara is hell. But i'm also convinced, that i was "born" into it, not thrown into it as part of a game.

In your direct experience, do you think there is truth to that?

[Leo Gura]

You are still thinking in dualities.

Maya is none other than God, Brahman, and the Absolute.

You cannot get rid of Maya. Nor should you want to.

Maya is all form. But form is not other than formlessness. Nonduality means embracing both, not elevating one over the other.

Relative and Absolute must be ONE. God's creation is not seperate from God, it IS God!

[Joseph Maynor]

Leo and I see this issue very differently:

(1) Leo: Maya is none other than God, Brahman, and the Absolute.

(2) Me:  God is not Maya.  Maya is a literal illusion.  

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(1) Leo: Nonduality means embracing both, not elevating one over the other.

(2) Me: Who is doing this embracing?

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(1) Leo: Relative and Absolute must be ONE. God's creation is not separate from God, it IS God!

(2) Me: Relative Truth is an illusion.  There's only one reality.  Reality doesn't have facets.

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Edited October 5, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

@Joseph Maynor That's because Joseph hasn't gone all the way yet to see the full circle.

Watch out for half-assed enlightenment. There is still a subtle dualism in your understanding. You are separating God from its creation. Which is only one side of the coin.

All dualities must collapse. You cannot have illusion on the one hand and something else on the other.

[cirkussmile]

From my understanding, the absolute has many qualities even though it is formless 

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Joseph Maynor That's because Joseph hasn't gone all the way yet to see the full circle.

Watch out for half-assed enlightenment. There is still a subtle dualism in your understanding. You are separating God from its creation. Which is only one side of the coin.

All dualities must collapse. You cannot have illusion on the one hand and something else on the other.

Who do I believe you or my lying eyes?

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Consilience]

“I” wish I was advanced enough in my understanding to even understand Leo’s and Joseph’s discrepancy lol 

[Joseph Maynor]

16 minutes ago, Consilience said:

“I” wish I was advanced enough in my understanding to even understand Leo’s and Joseph’s discrepancy lol 

The only way is to cultivate your own seeing through your own self-observation.  Theory is moot with this.  Understanding don't mean squat unless it's grounded in your own looking at yourself.  

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Hellspeed]

I believe Joseph Maynor is good and right. 

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura I see what you mean. When you merge all of the apparent dualities, then you must finally merge duality with non-duality. It’s like when the knife cuts everything, it hasn’t cut everything yet. The one thing that remains is the knife cutting itself. Neat.

Edited October 6, 2018 by How to be wise

[Jack River]

12 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The only way is to cultivate your own seeing through your own self-observation.

What do you mean cultivate? 

12 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Theory is moot with this.

Fosho. But isn’t cultivation also moot? 

 

12 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Understanding don't mean squat unless it's grounded in your own looking at yourself.  

Seeing “my” own limits is what you mean right? In seeing those limits as in awareness, ends those false patterns that prevent seeing. That what you mean dude? 

[Nahm]

[Jack River]

I can say one thing with certainty, absolute or reality is not measurable by the head. It is a measureless seeing. The ending of measure. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Jack River

[i am I AM]

@Jack River Then how can you be sure there is reality?

[Jack River]

“I” can’t lol 

when measure stops truth is. 

[i am I AM]

Is that because you cannot tell the difference of the measured and the measurement? Of course, How can you know there is one?

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

Is that because you cannot tell the difference of the measured and the measurement? Of course, How can you know there is one?

That’s the point of understanding measurement dude. Starting with fear/pleasure and going from there. Can’t understand what isn’t measurable. The silenced measure is to see without measure. It’s the shiet brah?

Edited October 6, 2018 by Jack River

[i am I AM]

Right. The blinders are real but so is the sight.

[Sockrattes]

On 6.10.2018 at 0:19 AM, Leo Gura said:

You are still thinking in dualities.

Maya is none other than God, Brahman, and the Absolute.

No i'm not. I'm not trying to get to the root of non-duality here. You should stop judging and postponing my desire for knowledge on the basis of your experience with others. That does not suit you and it undermines what else you have to say.

I'm asking because, i want to understand, how creation is functioning in its details and how to navigate within it. I'm not asking what creation or god is.

Ask yourself: Do you know, what i'm thinking right now in this moment? If not, then there is a certain kind of distinction between you and me, even if non-duality is the root of all this. This means even if both of us, have the same source, we are still functioning independently. The question here is: Why?

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Sockrattes said:

The question here is: Why?

The answer is: Infinity

But you don't get what that means yet.

You ARE asking what creation is. And creation cannot be understood apart from God.