What's Your Take on Materialism?

[Violinpracticerdude]

What's your take on materialism? I think that yes you can break things down to atoms but I mean if you're being chased by a bear you'll run away for your life. I'm kinda confused people saying that "nothing is real" and yet living like things are real.

Also, the paranormal, what's your view on that? Personally I think that it's just people getting tricked by their own brains, I mean science has shown that the consciousness is created by the brain and none of those people with "powers" have ever proved it when put to the test. I think that those saying they have psychic powers are deluded ego-maniacs, the ego wants more.

[Shadowraix]

Keep your mind on the stars but your eyes to your feet.

Yes nothing is real. Its all an illusion. But it feels real to you and you are bound by the properties of this illusion.

You seem to be new to this paradigm. I suggest you contemplate on it. 

As far as the paranormal, anything is possible. I won't take a stance on that. 

[Evelyn]

When I was little I saw a shadow person. It was scary back then and did not know what it was, later I googled it and apparently many people saw them. So yes I believe in the paranormal...  I also sometimes see pinpricks of light, sometimes around other peoples heads. I think they are angels or spirit guides , dunno for sure... In an OBE I had I saw 6 pinpricks of light that said they were my guides and took me on a journey through the Universe and past lives. Until you don't experience something "paranormal" it's hard to believe it. I am still a little doubtful myself, could be all in my head...  

[Rilles]

@Evelyn It IS all in your head, your head is all there is, atleast for you. Reality is subjective. 

[Flammable]

Scientists are just a group of people EXACTLY LIKE you - who ALSO only have the same 'first person experience' as you. Thus, it will be quite hard for them to prove anything residing out of this 'first person experience'.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Flammable

[Flammable]

@Outer  I do not exactly understand what you meant by falsifiable.

[Violinpracticerdude]

34 minutes ago, Evelyn said:

When I was little I saw a shadow person. It was scary back then and did not know what it was, later I googled it and apparently many people saw them. So yes I believe in the paranormal...  I also sometimes see pinpricks of light, sometimes around other peoples heads. I think they are angels or spirit guides , dunno for sure... In an OBE I had I saw 6 pinpricks of light that said they were my guides and took me on a journey through the Universe and past lives. Until you don't experience something "paranormal" it's hard to believe it. I am still a little doubtful myself, could be all in my head...  

 

It could be very well in your head. in fact it probably is. Lots of people have similar experiences and interpret it through religious dogma. The human mind can create archetypes and "see" things although it's just in your head. It's amazing, really.

[Shadowraix]

1 minute ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

 

It could be very well in your head. in fact it probably is. Lots of people have similar experiences and interpret it through religious dogma. The human mind can create archetypes and "see" things although it's just in your head. It's amazing, really.

The entire human experience is just "in your head"  

 

[Violinpracticerdude]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

 The entire human experience is just "in your head"  

 

Yes, because it's my head, my brain, that creates the consciousness that experiences being human. When the brain shuts off there's no evidence that somehow the consciousness will continue when it's created in the brain and you don't even have free will.

[SoonHei]

1 minute ago, Shadowraix said:

The entire human experience is just "in your head"  

 

+1 

 

4 minutes ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

 

It could be very well in your head. in fact it probably is. Lots of people have similar experiences and interpret it through religious dogma. The human mind can create archetypes and "see" things although it's just in your head. It's amazing, really.

@Violinpracticerdude

if it is in your head - does that mean it is not real?

what is real or unreal?

here's how it happens... to someone who is seeing a demon dance infront of them or torture them... it is as real as your current state of experience it

 

say you and another 2 people are in the same room while this person is having this "episode/attack"

you 3 do not see this demon that this poor guy is screaming to get away from... and you conclude, us 3 cannot see it, it is not real

that's it

 

what you fail to realize that experience / reality is subjective!

 

take optical illusions for example, a viral one a few years ago. the dress. there were people who saw one color, some saw the other, some could alternate between which color they saw

 

so what was the REAL COLOR ? the answer is, all of them are real to the one looking at them. just because majority agrees to a certain view does not make that REAL

it makes it A REAL EXPERIENCE TO THAT MAJORITY 

that's all there is. the absolute reality can be left out of this discussion for now  

 

click the link "TRUTH" in my signature to see what is TRUE/REAL and how it all works

 

 

[SoonHei]

2 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

I'm kinda confused people saying that "nothing is real" and yet living like things are real.

that's the whole point of the illusion

 

It means that it functions as if it were REAL

but it is actually not. that's all what's being said there. that "nothing is TRULY REAL"

 

example. you dream that you're being chased by a killer

you run for your life ... etc etc... feel as if you're gonna die..

 

then you wake up

then you tell yourself it was all a dream! or in other words, IT WAS NOT REAL!

yet - why were you acting and living as if it was REAL in your dream?

there ya go  the actuality of this illusion is being pointed to : nothing is real

but yes, it is an apparent illusory world which FEELS REAL AS FUCK 

@Violinpracticerdude

[Shadowraix]

23 minutes ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

Yes, because it's my head, my brain, that creates the consciousness that experiences being human. When the brain shuts off there's no evidence that somehow the consciousness will continue when it's created in the brain and you don't even have free will.

Your brain derives from consciousness.

Matter = Energy = Consciousness

See it is an assumption that all you are is the human experience you've identified with.

[Flammable]

@Outer  I am not sure how you can conduct an experiment proving that anything exists, but that would be interesting. Maybe I just cannot imagine it.

Hence, I cannot see how consciousness is falsifiable - people cannot rely on anything different than their 'first-hand perspective' when doing experiments, so they cannot really go out of this perspective and prove that anything OBJECTIVELY exists.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Flammable

[Viking]

for me materialism is not 100% false, but it's very unlikely for the following reasons:

• let's say the smallest parts are dumb subatomic particles without consciousness. then how does your consciousness arise? it makes zero sense. people say that those particles might have some consciousness and when they become as complex as a brain you experience "you", that's also very unlikely because that would mean inanimate objects would have consciousness too.
• supposedly when there is subjective experience (consciousness) the brain fires neurotransmitters in certain loops (that's what neuroscience says). but it is said that there are near death experiences and other sort of experiences when brain activity lowers, but people still experience stuff. that means that people experience stuff without their brain firing neurons, which means theres a difference between brain and consciousness. (look for the book "why materialism is baloney" for more information, and generally about this whole subject)
• it is very logical to assume that we dont experience all of external reality if there is one, because of evolutionary reasons (less information that is more crucial, less time to react). with that, all of our descriptions and measurements of "external reality" are based on our experience, sights, sounds, feelings, then how can we be so certain about our descriptions of it?
• science doesnt answer what is existence, it just explains certain matter with other matter, how some matter will react with other matter bla bla... it doesnt have the answer, which means materialism doesnt have the answer, it's just a set of beliefs.
• using the materialism paradigm, we conclude that all of our experience is in our heads, in the brain, we dont have direct access to reality and cant possibly have because it will always be through the brain. that for me just sounds weird and quite a stretch to be true.

edit: btw the materialist paradigm is extremely toxic because it leads us to believe that the world is full of cold facts without any magic and it contributes to people being depressed.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Viking

[aurum]

9 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

I'm kinda confused people saying that "nothing is real" and yet living like things are real.

 

And you won’t get it until you have your first mystical experience. But I’ll throw out some thoughts that may help.

You think you are the person you wake up to everyday. You think you are @Violinpracticerdude. And while the story of your life is logically consistent, it’s not the deeper existential truth.

The deeper truth is that your life is kind of like a projection. A projection of the evolution of something that I can’t describe. And that’s what you truly are. 

The awakening process is whatever this thing is (you) becoming aware of itself (you). The images you see in day to day life are like a metaphor for what is really happening.

I realize this probably makes no sense at all. But you’re on this forum, so I’m assuming you’re open to hearing ideas like this.

9 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

Also, the paranormal, what's your view on that?

The paranormal becomes normal when you start to realize what I just said above. Your beliefs about what is possible / impossible radically shift.

So yes, it’s all possible. Auras, angels, spirits, channeling, mediums, clairvoyance, etc. It’s all relatively normal for me at this point.

[Nahm]

@Violinpracticerdude The real adventure begins when you wake up and stop pretending you were born. 

[Consept]

21 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

What's your take on materialism? I think that yes you can break things down to atoms but I mean if you're being chased by a bear you'll run away for your life. I'm kinda confused people saying that "nothing is real" and yet living like things are real.

Also, the paranormal, what's your view on that? Personally I think that it's just people getting tricked by their own brains, I mean science has shown that the consciousness is created by the brain and none of those people with "powers" have ever proved it when put to the test. I think that those saying they have psychic powers are deluded ego-maniacs, the ego wants more.

When was it proved that the brain creates consciousness? What were the studies etc? 

[SoonHei]

@Consept it wasn't...

 

if it was somehow, someway, it would be false

 

just like Newtonian physics at one point were thought to be the absolute laws of the universe but were replaced by Einstein general relativity

same will happen to any understanding that brain creates consciousnesses

i'd much rather that materialism is shown and understood to be false to the masses just as earth is flat is now widely known to be "false"

 

i should note however, that reality being non-material is more TRUE than earth being ROUND as that is relative

sure, reality can relatively feel very physical and solid

but the deep TRUTH of it is that it's a hologram/projection/pure consciousness - so in that way, reality being non-material is more TRUE as it is ABSOLUTE, not relative.

 

[Violinpracticerdude]

19 hours ago, aurum said:

And you won’t get it until you have your first mystical experience. But I’ll throw out some thoughts that may help.

You think you are the person you wake up to everyday. You think you are @Violinpracticerdude. And while the story of your life is logically consistent, it’s not the deeper existential truth.

The deeper truth is that your life is kind of like a projection. A projection of the evolution of something that I can’t describe. And that’s what you truly are. 

The awakening process is whatever this thing is (you) becoming aware of itself (you). The images you see in day to day life are like a metaphor for what is really happening.

I realize this probably makes no sense at all. But you’re on this forum, so I’m assuming you’re open to hearing ideas like this.

The paranormal becomes normal when you start to realize what I just said above. Your beliefs about what is possible / impossible radically shift.

So yes, it’s all possible. Auras, angels, spirits, channeling, mediums, clairvoyance, etc. It’s all relatively normal for me at this point.

You can believe that the paranormal exists, but that doesn't make it real. If it was real then why does scientific research say that consciousness is created in the brain?

[Violinpracticerdude]

7 hours ago, Consept said:

When was it proved that the brain creates consciousness? What were the studies etc? 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762-700-consciousness-on-off-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain/

That's one example. Now, ask yourself, how many studies by REPUTABLE publications and sources, have claimed that consciousness is outside the brain? Sure on the Internet you'll have lots of people talk about how the current model is just "dogmatic materialism" but if that's so why not go and prove that consciousness isn't from the brain and win a Nobel Prize?