Leo Gura's Ridiculous Explanation of Consciousness? VIDEO

[Violinpracticerdude]

3 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Its asserting that the entire universe, all of reality is conscious.

The function that cells have are a direct creation of infinite intelligence.

Claiming that the universe is a result of intelligence sounds an awful lot like religion, and if the universe is conscious of itself then it's a demented monster.

http://www.unspirituality.com/horror-consciousness-denial-reality-spiritual-belief/

[SoonHei]

4 minutes ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

if the universe is conscious of itself then it's a demented monster.

from the point of view of an ego - sure  

keep searching for answers and you will understand it - eventually 

 

you seem to be tied down into the sciences...

check out double-split experiments and the work of Tom Campbell (My Big TOE - Theory of Everything)

it is a proof of a non-material universe which is dependent upon a conscious observer

the universe does not hold a reality on it's own per-say.

[Shadowraix]

6 minutes ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

Claiming that the universe is a result of intelligence sounds an awful lot like religion, and if the universe is conscious of itself then it's a demented monster.

http://www.unspirituality.com/horror-consciousness-denial-reality-spiritual-belief/

Then you are a demented monster! Thats still you moralizing.

Funny that the link talks about avoiding reality when in actuality the general teaching is to surrender to reality.

Yes it is acknowledged all is an illusion but it doesn't change how real to us it feels.

And this path doesn't mean that you can't follow a path of activism for reducing suffering.

But it seems that he is still stuck in your typical form of moralization and doesn't see that moralization in of itself creates more suffering!

This guy is strawmanning things so hard.

[Violinpracticerdude]

3 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Then you are a demented monster! Thats still you moralizing.

Funny that the link talks about avoiding reality when in actuality the general teaching is to surrender to reality.

Yes it is acknowledged all is an illusion but it doesn't change how real to us it feels.

And this path doesn't mean that you can't follow a path of activism for reducing suffering.

But it seems that he is still stuck in your typical form of moralization and doesn't see that moralization in of itself creates more suffering!

This guy is strawmanning things so hard.

I don't see how he's strawmanning when the denial of reality in religious and spiritual belief systems IS chronic.

[Shadowraix]

7 minutes ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

I don't see how he's strawmanning when the denial of reality in religious and spiritual belief systems IS chronic.

Yes I had another look over and he was speaking in a very general sense.

I was looking solely in the nondual context. My apologies.

Either way, think of it this way. You are playing chess with somebody. You can think ahead maybe a few moves. Your opponent can think ahead infinitely. You laugh and shame the opponent for giving up their queen when the opponent knows the giving up of the queen was part of plan and checkmates you. You simply can't see that far ahead. While infinite intelligence could.

Suffering exists. If terrorists shouldn't exist, they wouldn't. How reality is is exactly how it should be. Projecting our own ideal versions onto reality only creates more suffering when they don't align. People often use their own morals to deny aspects of reality. Activism to reducing suffering may or may not work. If it does it should of. If it doesn't it shouldn't of. The end result is always to be accepted for reduction of suffering.

But if you act from a place of hatred or the like such as when people demonize, it only spells more suffering.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Shadowraix

[SoonHei]

@Violinpracticerdude check out your sciences which prove a non-material world.

then you are free to say anything about this physical reality  

 

heck, TIME itself is proven to be relative - not absolute. and you're talking about a physical absolute sold reality

 

keep in mind, it is an apparently solid reality

just like to a video game character, it is an apparently real solid world

[Rilles]

How is the universe not intelligent? It created you didnt it? 

 

Matter of fact, it is creating you right now and you dont have to move a muscle. 

[SoonHei]

@Rilles the movement of the muscles are it's creation and so is this sentence  

[Violinpracticerdude]

31 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Rilles the movement of the muscles are it's creation and so is this sentence  

Noone knows WHY the universe exists, but that doesn't mean it's a conscious being aware of conscious beings. That's literally just a repackaged form of "God".

[Shadowraix]

1 minute ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

That's literally just a repackaged form of "God".

Precisely.

In this instance God = consciousness

God is nothing! But also everything.

God = Matter = Energy = Consciousness

Its all the same thing.

[Violinpracticerdude]

33 minutes ago, Shadowraix said:

Precisely.

In this instance God = consciousness

God is nothing! But also everything.

God = Matter = Energy = Consciousness

Its all the same thing.

Energy in itself is not consciousness. Also, go tell people that "God" is just energy and consciousness to the people who worship the most unpleasant character in fiction. The New-Age stuff removes a lot of the Bronze-Age brutality of the terms, but they're just terms that people misinterpret as literal.

[Flammable]

@Violinpracticerdude Precisely because terms can never be the Truth  If you can perceive it or conceive it, it is not IT. 

 

We stumble upon the inherent limitations of language and thought.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Flammable

[Violinpracticerdude]

2 minutes ago, Flammable said:

@Violinpracticerdude Precisely because terms can never be the Truth  If you can perceive it or conceive it, it is not IT. 

 

We stumble upon the inherent limitations of language and thought.

Indeed language is limited but that doesn't mean that the universe is a conscious being, and if it is then it's a crazed lunatic monster.

[Flammable]

@Violinpracticerdude I have no urge to convince you of anything - if you feel like you want a different point of view, people already wrote plenty of paragraphs describing non-dual perspectives, so have a look at them. If not, just keep your own! 
 

Both ways are fine. 

[Shadowraix]

11 minutes ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

Energy in itself is not consciousness. 

Consciousness being fundamental, energy is consciousness.

3 minutes ago, Flammable said:

I have no urge to convince you of anything - if you feel like you want a different point of view, people already wrote plenty of paragraphs describing non-dual perspectives, so have a look at them. If not, just keep your own! 

And yep. Nobody can convince you but yourself. You won't be satisfied unless you do the introspection and work to find the answers yourself.

[Violinpracticerdude]

4 minutes ago, Flammable said:

@Violinpracticerdude I have no urge to convince you of anything - if you feel like you want a different point of view, people already wrote plenty of paragraphs describing non-dual perspectives, so have a look at them. If not, just keep your own! 
 

Both ways are fine. 

Thanks for your reply! I do believe that we are all interconnected but an infinite consciousness is just a repackaged form of "God," once known as a fictional monster that people think will burn them forever if they don't fulfill it's sick desires and that plenty of people STILL believe in. Also, our interconnectedness isn't so fluffy; nature is a monster and we make each other suffer. The beauty of the interconnectedness of the universe is bittersweet as the erupting volcano burning away animals and humans going to war against each other for resources, are all interconnected. Actually, it's just sadomasochistic.

Anyways, I do respect your view and also thank you for respecting mine! I challenge my own viewpoints and it's nice seeing others who challenge their own as well.

[Leo Gura]

@Violinpracticerdude Very simply, your mind is stuck in Spiral Dynamics stage Orange.

See my video about that.

That's all that's going on here.

What's required of you if you wish to develop further is radical openmindedness and serious research.

You need to have a genuine desire to question your own worldview.

The issue here is no religion vs science, the issue is questioned metaphysical and epistemic assumptions which both religion and science hold dogmatically and refuse to question.

The distinction you've drawn between religion and science is a myth which you unquestioningly absorbed from culture.

What we're pointing you to here is not religion or science, but something far beyond both.

[Violinpracticerdude]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Violinpracticerdude Very simply, your mind is stuck in Spiral Dynamics stage Orange.

See my video about that.

That's all that's going on here.

What's required of you if you wish to develop further is radical openmindedness and serious research.

You need to have a genuine desire to question your own worldview.

The issue here is no religion vs science, the issue is questioned metaphysical and epistemic assumptions which both religion and science hold dogmatically and refuse to question.

The distinction you've drawn between religion and science is a myth which you unquestioningly absorbed from culture.

What we're pointing you to here is not religion or science, but something far beyond both.

I'm very open-minded and yet upon examining things I see that reality is gruesome and consciousness can be seen as more of a horror than a blessing. For years I've wondered if there is a paranormal but I've come upon the conclusion with critical thinking that it doesn't exist and humans are SUPER susceptible to hallucination and in fact even deliberately WANT to believe in things like an afterlife etc. because of the fear of death.

I do consider myself to be at stage Orange in Spiral Dynamics but claiming that higher levels of it are "moving past materialism" is a misrepresentation of the model.

I certainly love to question my worldview and yet the more I look at things the deeper my cynicism goes. It's pretty clear to me reality and the universe is not fluffy or caring whatsoever. Nature is actually anything but love and when you die, most likely that's just it.

Who do I think people cling to supernatural views? Thousands of years of indoctrination, and the ego wanting more than what reality offers.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

I've come upon the conclusion with critical thinking that it doesn't exist and humans are SUPER susceptible to hallucination and in fact even deliberately WANT to believe in things like an afterlife etc. because of the fear of death.

Hehehe...

That's where you went wrong.

All THINKING is self-deception. The mistake you are making is trusting your own rationality.

If humans are as SUPER susceptible to hallucination and wishful beliefs as you claim, then by your own logic YOU (as a human) are currently hallucinating, and all of your rationality and justification and "critical thinking" is also hallucination precisely because you fear death.

So you're half-right. The mistake you're making is that you're not applying your own skepticism to yourself.

Classic stage Orange.

You are barking up a tree the depth of which you haven't even begin to fathom at your stage of development.

Thousands of years of indoctrination is why you are rejecting the things I am telling you.

Supernatural views exist because paranormal phenomena are easily experienced by millions of people all around world, and have been for all of human history, including today. This doesn't make sense to you because your consciousness and experience is so limited, and you're a dogmatic materialist. Of course you tell yourself you're openminded, but that's just your ego playing a trick on you. You are not openminded. You're not conscious of your closedmindedness yet.

You have to understand that what we're talking about here are EXTREMELY advanced insights which are outside the realm of your current understanding, or society's understanding. Your standard rationalist and skeptic lines of argumentation are not going to cut it here. I've heard them all. There is no rationalist or materialist objection you can raise which I have not heard a hundred times before. What we are talking about is way beyond all that.

It's sort of like you're trying to teach 8th grade algebra to people discussing post-graduate calculus. We already know your algebra backwards and forwards. We are interested in something orders of magnitude more advanced.

[Adam M]

1 hour ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

I do consider myself to be at stage Orange in Spiral Dynamics but claiming that higher levels of it are "moving past materialism" is a misrepresentation of the model.

Ah yes, I'm sure the model is wrong and you are right...its hilarious because spiral dynamics even predicts this type of arrogance at stage orange.

The main problem here is that you simply haven't SERIOUSLY studied the world from enough perspectives (coming from someone who is stage yellow) and that you lack fundamental conciousness of the present moment which allows your self deceptions to go unnoticed (which is something that a turquoise thinker like Leo would tell you)

But overall, you fail to recognize that every argument you're providing has already been completely disproven not only by Leo, but by many other thinkers in history (like Heraclitus and Niels Bohr)