Leo Gura's Ridiculous Explanation of Consciousness? VIDEO

[Nahm]

@Violinpracticerdude

You ever watch a scary movie, and get scared, and then when the movie’s over, you’re not scared anymore, of course, because it was just a movie..?  For me it was “The Strangers” lol, with the potatoe sack mask. No thank you sir. ? Reality is like the movie, it appears real and thinking that it is real sucks you in, and you don’t pay any mind to the screen itself. 

You could actually sit down and deconstruct this by uncovering all of the veils involved in you creating ‘your person’ which convinces itself that it is not God. You could do this without any tools, books, tablet, phones, other people,  with no resources whatsoever. It’s what you’re already doing to have this experience, just backwards, in a sense. You’d be sitting there for a long time, and you’d face every possible fear, but you could do it. 

So consider that there are a lot of paradigms that you’d have to understand and see for yourself, backwards, or the exact opposite of your current perspective, not that they’re wrong, just that maya (your illusion) is dualistic, so one way of seeing a paradigm is always only half of what’s there to be seen. You can test this out by looking at your posts, isolating a “view” of yours, a perspective on a topic, then pretend you’re the attorney for the opposing side, and google, youtube, and research in general, the opposite view, and ‘your’ conscousness will ‘expand’, to include both. 

[Patang]

Everything is fine. The video in question is an example of harsh criticism and judgment that joins a personal opinion that is not based on personal experience. It is permissible for any person to think and believe in whatever he chooses. Every person is entitled to see himself as a separate being who experiences the world in the way he chooses. Every person sees reality and understands it in his own way, and that's fine, everything is fine. The dreamers are managed and controlled by thoughts, and the awaken ones are aware to the real nature of reality and know who they really are. either way, it's fine.

[Shadowraix]

8 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

nature is a monster and we make each other suffer. The beauty of the interconnectedness of the universe is bittersweet as the erupting volcano burning away animals and humans going to war against each other for resources, are all interconnected. Actually, it's just sadomasochistic.

Its only a monster and sadomasochistic if you see it that way  

Solving the relativistic dilemma of good/bad moral/immoral was something I sought to figure out for years even before I knew nonduality existed, but it was only prior to finding nonduality did I even get a solution proposed to me.

8 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

I do believe that we are all interconnected but an infinite consciousness is just a repackaged form of "God,"

If you actually go back and read the Bible with a nondual context it makes far more sense than it ever did. I'm pretty sure there are books out there that put Christianity into a nondual perspective. Nonduality was also very popular with the ancient Egyptians and greeks. (Where hermetic philosophy derives from) And considering that psychedelic use has been insanely popular throughout human history and they typically point you towards nonduality, you start to see a overall big picture in all of these ancient texts that seemingly everybody missed.

You can call it a repackaged form of God but thats such a bland statement because the term "God" isn't as magical and mystical as people make it out to be. In short it can be summed down to your creator. Well remember YOU are this big infinite singularity. And that created you, so it is God. Which also means you are God. But there are so many notions and connotations people hold with the word "God" I tend to use it sparingly.

Hermetic philosophy was one of my first introductions to nonduality in which it sort describes the universe as one giant living mind. Like your mind, but infinite and you are contained in it. Everything you are is a derivative of what reality is capable of. Bunch of other stuff like absolute truth and relative truth etc etc

If you'd like to take a read: https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/content/books/ebooks/kybalion-a-study-of-the-hermetic-philosophy.pdf

[petar8p]

12 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Never said that either. But you don't need good or evil or moralization to acknowledge and reduce suffering. The label of evil is a big ego trip to separate yourself from them and to demonize and judge.

 

Hey, I'm trying to understand your perspective and I also think that evil and good don't exist, it's an invention that serves us in some way. For example, we think that every human has a right to live because you would not like for someone to kill you and thus we look at killing as evil. However, if you were in a Spartan tribe and you would have to take care of one extra kid that wouldn't serve the military but just waste the resources, you would want to kill it, it's not serving you. I don't think we should kill anybody but I'm arguing only that good and bad don't exist in the "objective" sense. 

Now what I wanted to ask you is why do you think that label of evil is ONLY a big ego trap that wants to demonize and judge. If we never shamed and punished people that do "bad" stuff, there would be no grounds on which we would build a society that doesn't have right to kill people. Do you think that this does nothing? How can you know it does nothing? If someone was regularly punching your kid in the face, what's the alternative approach apart  from distancing the kid and threatening him?

Thanks.

 

12 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Simple. Infinity. It could be no other way.

Infinite intelligence may be something you'll stumble upon down the line, which is imbued in infinite consciousness and by extension everything you see. Thats a whole other can of worms to unravel.

But to keep it simple infinity is everything and so it couldn't be any other way. Whats happening right now is included as a part of infinity.

Infinity is working as intended. Otherwise it wouldn't be infinite.

Problems arise when we try to project our ideal version of reality on reality itself.

Also here I'm confused. Are you suggesting that since there could be no other way that we're just witnesses here, unable to make any impact on anything? We're victims of infinity? 

[petar8p]

11 hours ago, Shadowraix said:

Either way, think of it this way. You are playing chess with somebody. You can think ahead maybe a few moves. Your opponent can think ahead infinitely. You laugh and shame the opponent for giving up their queen when the opponent knows the giving up of the queen was part of plan and checkmates you. You simply can't see that far ahead. While infinite intelligence could.

Suffering exists. If terrorists shouldn't exist, they wouldn't. How reality is is exactly how it should be. Projecting our own ideal versions onto reality only creates more suffering when they don't align. People often use their own morals to deny aspects of reality. Activism to reducing suffering may or may not work. If it does it should of. If it doesn't it shouldn't of. The end result is always to be accepted for reduction of suffering.

But if you act from a place of hatred or the like such as when people demonize, it only spells more suffering.

I think the part that Violinpracticerdude doesn't exist, nor me for that matter is: How can you know that this is true? How can you know that terrorists should exist, that it's "intended". How do you know that everything is as it should be? How do you know that universe is conscious? How do you know that there is infinite intelligence? How can you be absolutely sure of anything? 

Maybe the answer lies in me having to go and have a lot of contemplative experience to really get this, and I probably will, but you know I kind of need something in return. How can I know that what I'm going to figure out is real and Truth?

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, petar8p said:

We're victims of infinity? 

You're not a victim of Infinity.

You ARE Infinity! You ARE God! You created the entire universe and tricked yourself into thinking you didn't.

If you only became conscious of your full power and intelligence you would be horrified at its infinite magnitude.

You are like a billionaire who hasn't yet realized you are a billionaire because you constantly keep thinking about how broke you are.

[petar8p]

1 hour ago, Shadowraix said:

If you'd like to take a read: https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/content/books/ebooks/kybalion-a-study-of-the-hermetic-philosophy.pdf

Thanks, I've heard of this book. Is this the whole book? I've seen some have 120 or 200 pages..

[petar8p]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You ARE Infinity! You ARE God! You created the entire universe and tricked yourself into thinking you didn't.

What form was I in when I created the entire universe? Was I consciousness, just as I am now? How did you find out you and I created a universe? Why would we want to hide that fact from ourselves? If everything's as it should be, do I have the ability to change my future, or it will play out certainly in ONE possible way, independent of my "effort"?

[Shadowraix]

27 minutes ago, petar8p said:

Now what I wanted to ask you is why do you think that label of evil is ONLY a big ego trap that wants to demonize and judge. If we never shamed and punished people that do "bad" stuff, there would be no grounds on which we would build a society that doesn't have right to kill people. Do you think that this does nothing? How can you know it does nothing? If someone was regularly punching your kid in the face, what's the alternative approach apart  from distancing the kid and threatening him?

If you want a really good in depth break down of how evil and the ego relate Leo's video I linked earlier about the devil does a pretty good job. That also goes well with his two videos on morality. You see, when people hurt us it threatens our ego which is constantly trying to preserve our human form. Which ultimately causes the reaction of demonizing to see ourselves as "better" than them and create this divide or distinction. Now when it comes to society the practical applications can be tricky. You can advocate for the current system if thats what you want, there's no right or wrong way to live. But the idea is to think holistically to tackle the situation from a place of unconditional love, its because when you love/accept everything for it is you and you see yourself as literally it, you are going to think very differently in how to reduce suffering for all and not just the people in your "good" bubble.

I've thought about this and on a global scale it becomes tricky because most of society on SD are pretty low. It would think a huge rise in consciousness for everyone to start thinking in this holistic manner. One big thing that ends up resulting in people to have such hatred or views on the world to hurt others often can derive from trauma. Or they are lacking something from the world. The act itself is a byproduct of the root disease. We probably won't see such radical changes in our lifetime on a global scale.

 

9 minutes ago, petar8p said:

Thanks, I've heard of this book. Is this the whole book? I've seen some have 120 or 200 pages..

I am pretty sure. The original link I got it from was: www.hermetics.org/pdf/kybalion.pdf but it seems to be down at the moment. I think the page variation comes from the font size, I noticed the first one I linked had bigger text than this one.

23 minutes ago, petar8p said:

Maybe the answer lies in me having to go and have a lot of contemplative experience to really get this, and I probably will, but you know I kind of need something in return. How can I know that what I'm going to figure out is real and Truth?

That becomes tricky as well. Ultimately you'll have realizations all your life. Given reality is infinite, an infinite amount of realizations exist. One part of the contemplation is to contemplate so much you don't know anything anymore, you break everything down to its core and see what you have left. The trickiness and possible delusion of the ego is exactly why this takes a long time. I've only truly started applying some of the things I've talked about. Currently shifting oneness into awareness and unconditional love. Leo on his blog has a video on metaphysics vs epistemology where it gets summed down that epistemology will result in the conclusion you can't know anything, unless you see, you have direct consciousness. 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/metaphysics-vs-epistemology

 

11 minutes ago, petar8p said:

What form was I in when I created the entire universe? Was I consciousness, just as I am now? How did you find out you and I created a universe? Why would we want to hide that fact from ourselves? If everything's as it should be, do I have the ability to change my future, or it will play out certainly in ONE possible way, independent of my "effort"?

Your form? Nothing! Thats your true form, is nothing. It is a formless substance. If it had form it couldn't manifest in any way possible. You see for infinity to not be faulty it must include everything which also includes you living out your life unaware of who you are. Its all the same substance but people do struggle to not get why they don't have access to total infinite intelligence or consciousness and its simply because you didn't give it to yourself. Its like a narrow stream of consciousness flowing to you from the big infinite pool of consciousness. Very very limited. Imagine in your head a war of a bunch of people fighting to protect their nation all self aware thinking beings convinced of the world they are living in. They are you, and yet they shout and demonize God without realizing their true nature. They may be bound by such an illusion you created unaware but everything you imagined was entirely intentional and you had the full paranormal power over this world.

I find this to be a good analogy to compare you to infinite consciousness. You see you are experiencing everything from what its like to be you, me, a pig, whatever. But for these creations to be them means to not be aware of what you truly are from the get go. 

See you are separating whats going to happen from your effort. The thing is the effort or lack of effort you put in is a PART of the whole thing. If you put effort into making a change and it succeeds, that was intentional, if it fails, that was intentional, if you never put effort in at all, that was intentional. So yes it will play out in a very specific fashion but what you do is a part of how that plays out and because you are interconnected in the story it appears that you have control. The past and future doesn't exist, its all just the present moment. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, petar8p said:

What form was I in when I created the entire universe? Was I consciousness, just as I am now? How did you find out you and I created a universe? Why would we want to hide that fact from ourselves? If everything's as it should be, do I have the ability to change my future, or it will play out certainly in ONE possible way, independent of my "effort"?

Become enlightened and you will know.

These things cannot be explained to you verbally. Or rather, they can, but you will not understand them and only feel more confused.

Really think about this: Why would you expect that something like this could be explained verbally? You can't even verbally explain an orgasm.

[petar8p]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Become enlightened and you will know.

I will know the answer to every single question I posted? I will know it's all true and I'll see how, which I probably won't be able to speak through because the Thruth is beyond words, concepts and thoughts? 

The only thing the Thruth can lie in than is experience itself. Is experience itself the Thruth?

[petar8p]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Become enlightened and you will know.

These things cannot be explained to you verbally. Or rather, they can, but you will not understand them and only feel more confused.

Really think about this: Why would you expect that something like this could be explained verbally? You can't even verbally explain an orgasm.

Got it, thank you!

[Blissout]

Leo should become enlightened himself instead of keep saying that to others lol.

[Consept]

So essentially this is an orange materialist debate against a community of say green and above non dualists. Here's the thing the non dualists have been through an orange stage, if you look at the nature of the debate @Violinpracticerdude is questioning things as he is not entirely satisfied with his current understanding, something  rings true  about non dual teaching, so he's trying to either strengthen his current understanding by defeating people on this forum in a debate or, the harder path completely overhaul his beliefs. Problem he can only understand what's being said through the perspective of materialism, which means that essentially he cant understand the non dualists point of view fully. 

If you notice the non dualists are not really trying to find information from him, as what he knows they already do. They seek maybe partly to reinforce they're beliefs but mainly they see someone who wants to know and is a little lost. 

Just thought I'd do an overview lol 

[petar8p]

10 minutes ago, Consept said:

So essentially this is an orange materialist debate against a community of say green and above non dualists. Here's the thing the non dualists have been through an orange stage, if you look at the nature of the debate @Violinpracticerdude is questioning things as he is not entirely satisfied with his current understanding, something  rings true  about non dual teaching, so he's trying to either strengthen his current understanding by defeating people on this forum in a debate or, the harder path completely overhaul his beliefs. Problem he can only understand what's being said through the perspective of materialism, which means that essentially he cant understand the non dualists point of view fully. 

If you notice the non dualists are not really trying to find information from him, as what he knows they already do. They seek maybe partly to reinforce they're beliefs but mainly they see someone who wants to know and is a little lost. 

Just thought I'd do an overview lol 

Yeah, something like that. I'm not denying that I need to learn here and they already know all the stuff that I know and believe in.. I just want to "get" their knowledge of what they know, which Leo seems to suggest can only be gained through personal experience with enlightenment, because words are only pointers for the things you already know of. Thus you can't describe what red looks like to a blind person. He never saw it to begin with!

[Consept]

23 minutes ago, petar8p said:

Yeah, something like that. I'm not denying that I need to learn here and they already know all the stuff that I know and believe in.. I just want to "get" their knowledge of what they know, which Leo seems to suggest can only be gained through personal experience with enlightenment, because words are only pointers for the things you already know of. Thus you can't describe what red looks like to a blind person. He never saw it to begin with!

Exactly, this is the thing, up until now we've been taught that how you know something is by learning it and remembering it. This is how it works in the school system, you know that there were Vikings because we've been told that, but it's limited in that you don't know what it felt like to be a Viking or what there life was really like as you weren't conscious then or at least you don't know if you were. So this is the method that we learn anything, we say we know there was a big bang and that's how the earth started, we know we are human beings, but it's the same method. 

How you could attempt and possibly truly know something is experientially, in that I know what the colour red is because I experienced that (even that you could contemplate lol), I know I have a thought because I can feel it in my mind etc. It's not that it will give you concrete answers as you might believe you get in science but it will give you truth as much as it's possible for you to perceive it. 

But I think you're nearly there, you just have to let go of some of your dogmatic, it is that way because it is that way, beliefs. Also keep in mind that society has never stopped in terms of its world view, it's constantly changing, what keeps it in place is dogmatic beliefs. Consider Christianity, they would go to war and kill those with opposing beliefs, sometimes even their own citizen's, just because beliefs have evolved to science and materialism it doesn't mean that that's the end of the road and we've worked everything out, on the contrary we should see that a truly open mind is essential for our evolution as humans and not stick to things we know because we know them. Final point if you actually go in to science quite deeply, you'll see there are a lot of parellels with non dualism and spirituality. 

Anyway, hope this thread has sparked something in you and you continue to look deeper, enjoy the journey 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, petar8p said:

I will know the answer to every single question I posted?

That's what contemplation is for.

Much more of reality can be comprehended than people assume. Just not through linear rationality.

You can go trans-rational, and then entirely non-symbolic to realms which cannot be imagined.

[Sevi]

23 hours ago, Violinpracticerdude said:

 

What is your take on this video and Unspirituality in general? In one of his Replies to Comments videos a former Actualized.org member says his videos showed him out and that Actualized.org is a nihilistic cult.

I enjoy the content on Unspirituality and I've seen that Leo says things that are simply not true, such as the "paranormal." What's your take on this video and what are your own rebuttals to my own views that the paranormal doesn't exist? Thank you.

@Violinpracticerdude I appreciate that you brought this video here and ask directly to the forum members and be open to the discussion.

I watched it and read the link you sent. For me, normally if I see this type of tone in a video I simply don't watch it, I consider it as a sign of immaturity; but of course sometimes there are reasons for people to get that personal and passionate.

His point of view is not clear in the vid, I didn't understand what he is bringing to the table. From the page, some of the points made sense to me, like, he also doesn't want to accept or believe in things because just it is said so, seems like he also honors direct experience; on the other hand it didn't seem like he has enough assertiveness and discipline to keep the necessary practice going.

I only invested my time on this, just because I appreciated the way you took your time to understand the opposite end and had an attitude to communicate it which can allow growth for both parties.

My experience and opinion of paranormal is opposite of yours; but unfortunately there is no way that we can argue or commucate it. What I only can say is, looking at the way you were willing to argue that, you seem you are not satisfied with your conclusion about it; so if you are really serious about this, I would suggest to take your time to read some of the practices that are offered in this forum and apply one of the fitting ones for you at least one year, then you might have a chance to challenge your conclusion if you want to.

The thing is, these topics & content need real actual phycial work in an on going regular basis. Considering even something like going to gym  to exercise (as a very well seated life habit) just for physical mundane benefits is how challenging to acquire; forget about the work for exploring infinity. 

And without having at least one or two practices like those going on in our lives, to attempt to grasp the meaning what these guys like Leo are referring to will be useless. It's not an intellectual or mental activity, I mean of course some facets of it requires some mental comprehension too, but it is like, understanding why your knee shouldn't pass your toe when the feet are not in parallel position, while lifting up the heavy weight at the gym.

Thanks again caring to ask directly to the forum members, I hope you stick around to see the components offered here.

[Truth Addict]

And that's why saints and sages talk in riddles, they know most people are so fucking lazy to get their asses off and do the work.

Leo is lying to you, take responsibility and deal with that by yourself, that's the point.

DO NOT TRUST NOBODY.

[Violinpracticerdude]

5 hours ago, Sevi said:

@Violinpracticerdude I appreciate that you brought this video here and ask directly to the forum members and be open to the discussion.

I watched it and read the link you sent. For me, normally if I see this type of tone in a video I simply don't watch it, I consider it as a sign of immaturity; but of course sometimes there are reasons for people to get that personal and passionate.

His point of view is not clear in the vid, I didn't understand what he is bringing to the table. From the page, some of the points made sense to me, like, he also doesn't want to accept or believe in things because just it is said so, seems like he also honors direct experience; on the other hand it didn't seem like he has enough assertiveness and discipline to keep the necessary practice going.

I only invested my time on this, just because I appreciated the way you took your time to understand the opposite end and had an attitude to communicate it which can allow growth for both parties.

My experience and opinion of paranormal is opposite of yours; but unfortunately there is no way that we can argue or commucate it. What I only can say is, looking at the way you were willing to argue that, you seem you are not satisfied with your conclusion about it; so if you are really serious about this, I would suggest to take your time to read some of the practices that are offered in this forum and apply one of the fitting ones for you at least one year, then you might have a chance to challenge your conclusion if you want to.

The thing is, these topics & content need real actual phycial work in an on going regular basis. Considering even something like going to gym  to exercise (as a very well seated life habit) just for physical mundane benefits is how challenging to acquire; forget about the work for exploring infinity. 

And without having at least one or two practices like those going on in our lives, to attempt to grasp the meaning what these guys like Leo are referring to will be useless. It's not an intellectual or mental activity, I mean of course some facets of it requires some mental comprehension too, but it is like, understanding why your knee shouldn't pass your toe when the feet are not in parallel position, while lifting up the heavy weight at the gym.

Thanks again caring to ask directly to the forum members, I hope you stick around to see the components offered here.

As to your "paranormal" experience, would it not be a simpler explanation to say that you've simply seen things? No amount of belief makes something true.