Is it possible to be enlightened and...

[Toby]

not be aware in deep (dreamless) sleep? I mean, isn't that the definition of being awake (or even enlightened) that at least this awareness is "experienced" during all major states of consciousness (waking, dreaming, sleeping)?
So... to everyone who claims, pretends or thinks to be awake / enlightened, how is your first hand experience? (Please, no theoretical bs like "what is awake is already awake during deep sleep whether "I" am aware of it or not")

[archi]

@Toby That is a great question that only fully enlightened people can answer .

I find it interesting to explore and extend meditative state that I enter during sleep.

So more thoughts:

https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-spiritually-enlightened-person-experience-sleep

https://www.quora.com/While-sleeping-I-became-enlightened-for-a-few-seconds-and-became-aware-of-the-whole-body-but-the-body-was-sleeping-however-I-was-awake-can-I-call-this-state-as-enlightenment

[SoonHei]

@Toby

 

[archi]

Well, I realized that it is the same answer to the question: do enlightened people eat?

Edited October 3, 2018 by archi

[Flammable]

As a famous proverb says:

Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.

I can only assume everything happens the same way even after.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Flammable

[Hellspeed]

Once you awake you gain the ability to be aware even if you sleep. One can even watch themselves sleeping. This is my experience. 

[Nahm]

@Toby I have recently expereinced being ‘conscious’ during sleep, three times, in the last month or so. Nothingness, Being, with a “center”, but without form or light, almost a sense of gravity to a center, which in words doesn’t make sense, but, that’s really it. Rather uneventful, but weird in the sense, it wasn’t a dream, or not a dream, it was like the same as just sitting somewhere with nothing goin on, and no outside or inside, similar but not the same as around the 40 minute mark in meditation. It is also different in how it is during sleep but not unique. When I “woke up” the following morning after the first time this happened, I just sat up and pondered about it. The oddity is that it was a new experience, but of the most common of experiences. New because it was during sleep I guess. Also, it was unique in the sense that when you awake and recall a dream, it’s as if it just happened, this, I couldn’t tell if it happened last night, the middle of the night, just before getting up, or the entire night. There wasn’t any thinking or context, so it’s like there was no data on it. 

I can’t honestly say this does, or doesn’t have anything to do with what you hold “enlightenment” to be. It was a new kind of experience in consciousness, like the trip experiences previously of love, light, peace, etc, but without even any of that.

[eputkonen]

29 minutes ago, Hellspeed said:

Once you awake you gain the ability to be aware even if you sleep. One can even watch themselves sleeping. This is my experience. 

What about deep dreamless sleep?  Is it your experience to be aware in deep dreamless sleep?

[Shin]

3 hours ago, eputkonen said:

What about deep dreamless sleep?  Is it your experience to be aware in deep dreamless sleep?

I recall being able to, once.

Just like in a deep deep meditation where only "(well I can't put a name on it)" remains.

There was literally nothing at all, but still something at the same time !

[Leo Gura]

Depends on the depth of your enlightenment.

Only at the deepest levels will you be conscious in deep dreamless sleep. But it is certainly possible. Plenty of sages and mystics have done it.

But don't expect that from one enlightenment. That usually requires multiple enlightenments and decades of serious consciousness work which almost body here will do.

Like I keep telling you guys, there are many levels to this. Enlightenment is not a binary thing.

[eputkonen]

On 10/2/2018 at 3:41 PM, Toby said:

not be aware in deep (dreamless) sleep? I mean, isn't that the definition of being awake (or even enlightened) that at least this awareness is "experienced" during all major states of consciousness (waking, dreaming, sleeping)?
So... to everyone who claims, pretends or thinks to be awake / enlightened, how is your first hand experience? (Please, no theoretical bs like "what is awake is already awake during deep sleep whether "I" am aware of it or not")

 

Toby, enlightenment has been mythologized quite a bit.  It has also been said that the enlightened are aware of all their past lives.

Assuming you are on board with ultimately nothing is separate...nonduality...advaita, there is something to ponder and question.  All major states of consciousness (waking, dreaming, sleeping)...you are referring to are of one body/mind.  All the past lives too refer to one individual.  If there is no other or separation, then why would having more awareness of this specific body/mind really matter? 

Are you constantly aware of every inch of your skin...consciously...all of the time?  Do you fantasize that one who is enlightened would be?   There may not be conscious awareness of every inch of your skin every second, but don't believe there is a lack of awareness at any time for any piece of skin.  Prick it with a needle and you instantly are aware of it.  That is the Unborn mind - as Zen Master Bankei put it.

It is not a matter of conscious awareness, because there is much the subconscious will notice that the conscious mind does not.  Do you believe that there is no subconscious mind for one who is enlightened and it is all conscious?

It is not a matter of being aware...you are that Awareness.  Even now, when you wake up in the morning you say you slept very well.  Part or even much of the night was deep dreamless sleep, but you say you slept very well.  Why?  Because you were aware.  You never cease existing in the middle of the night.  How do you know?  Because you were aware. 

You might learn to be consciously aware...like a lucid dreamer...even when dreaming knowing it is a dream and keeping awareness.  You might even learn how to do this in deep dreamless sleep.  But do not make it a requirement of enlightenment.  As it pertains to one specific body/mind...and you are really the All/Oneness, such a skill is not really needed.

It is kind of like the sun...as long as there are no objects (planets, etc.) there is no light to be seen.  A sun with nothing around it is just in blackness.  In deep dreamless sleep, there are no objects...so it appears to be void...nothingness.  And so it is experienced as nothing for me.  I have no interest in gaining some skill in being consciously aware of nothingness for hours on end.  I also have no interest in gaining the skill to know all of my past lives.  I am not really this body/mind...or conscious awareness.  I am all awareness...conscious, subconscious, superconscious, etc.

What you are asking about has no relevance to enlightenment (IMO) - and is over focusing on the body/mind when you are Oneness/Everything.  It is over-focusing on some kind of "me" that retains conscious awareness.  Enlightenment is far more about realizing there is no other (seeing through the illusion of duality) and the cessation of suffering.  You are the one shining the sun...whether you are conscious of it or not.  You don't have to be conscious of it all, nor is it a requirement of enlightenment to be conscious of it all.

Edited October 4, 2018 by eputkonen

[PsiloPutty]

@eputkonen  Gosh I enjoy your posts.

[Hellspeed]

12 hours ago, eputkonen said:

What about deep dreamless sleep?  Is it your experience to be aware in deep dreamless sleep?

There are no more random dreams, one can project and have any dream or none. 

[Enlightenment]

It does depend even more so on your concentration skills than enlightenment. Enlightenment ≠ concentration skills. Once you are able to put your attention on any object and it just stays there effortlessly without dullness for 2h+, then your perception becomes very vivid, mind powerful and even beyond that there is even more powerful equanimity and that point it's possible to have some awareness left in dreamless sleep.