Self-Inquiry Conundrum

[Jack River]

People will argue and defend the ways or means that give them hope or validate there own “personal path”. This is the self defending itself. The way or measns is actually that same “me” or self. Thats why when feel the need to protect our personal methods, practices, drug use. If I question those means you took, i question you, as in the “self”.

You will notice this with people on here. If I talk about a guru you depend on you feel attacked. If I talk about “your” method you feel attacked. If I talk about self-inquire you feel attacked.

That is because we are identified with that way or means. We are identified with thought. All of that is the product of thought itself. The self and the means are the same movement of fear clinging to thought. 

[Jack River]

Psychological Freedom is an action now. Action in time via practices and such is procrastination of action dudes. The only way to solve psychological problem is to act now. If I depend on time to solve psychological problem it prolongs it or makes it worse. If I understand thought/self this is all understood. I started with understanding fear. Because I did that I could explore all this without fear creating illusions to hide behind. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

@Jack RiverI dont know Jack...making something "worse" in which division is implied may be necessary

the first spiritual teacher i learned from (eckhart tolle) expresses the importance of remaining in the now. i believe for him enlightenment was almost instantaneous due to a build up of suffering

only the self desires..so if one identifies with the self then there must be a desire to end suffering and become liberated before action now. 

I never said meditation needed to be part of the process, i am only saying that it could be useful for some as it is a way to quiet the mind even if it doesn't address the main conflicts to liberation

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

the first spiritual teacher i learned from (eckhart tolle) expresses the importance of remaining in the now.

Fosho. Stay with suffering. 

3 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

i believe for him enlightenment was almost instantaneous due to a build up of suffering

 

Yep. He saw that escape made it worse. 

 

4 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

only the self desires..so if one identifies with the self then there must be a desire to end suffering and become liberated before action now. 

Desire doesn’t end suffering, seeing what desire causes does. Do you see what I mean? 

 

5 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

never said meditation needed to be part of the process, i am only saying that it could be useful for some as it is a way to quiet the mind even if it doesn't address the main conflicts to liberation

Escape will temporarily soothe the me. Then I am not as interested to solve a problem. Then I get caught in quieting thought as a routine, as in seeking repeated pleasure. 

[Jack River]

Liberation or freedom is instantaneous. That’s my point . 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Remaining in “the now” means no psychological time as means. Good call @DrewNows

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River

[DrewNows]

2 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Desire doesn’t end suffering, seeing what desire causes does. Do you see what I mean? 

yes desire creating psychological becoming but if someone is not at this point yet then maybe they will only know that suffering gives them a desire to end their suffering

7 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Escape will temporarily soothe the me. Then I am not as interested to solve a problem. Then I get caught in quieting thought as a routine, as in seeking repeated pleasure.

When they realize how temporary this is maybe the search will begin to investigate what else is needed? But yes i see it as a delay seeing what is. 

I feel this "pleasure" should be looked into just as much as suffering when on the path to liberation

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

feel this "pleasure" should be looked into just as much as suffering when on the path to liberation

Yep. Pleasure and fear and desire go together. When I went into fear I had to go into please also. Really both the same. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

@DrewNowsBut like you said freedom or liberation is not a progression. As Eckhart says it is instantaneous action now. That’s why it’s so rare. Because we always move via time. That’s the issue though. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

21 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

feel this "pleasure" should be looked into just as much as suffering when on the path to liberation

The path, suffering, desire, pleasure, psychological time, all me becoming. Isn’t it something  

[DrewNows]

@Jack River Indeed, indeed! ??