Self-Inquiry Conundrum

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, DrewNows said:

Ha yes! you can see these thoughts for what they are! A self-feeding loop creating more division of thought-self.

What is your purpose for self inquiry? Is it practical? 

 

@OuterHow does mind solve it's own created problem? 

by no way / means / or ideas can freedom from thought self/i be attained. 

Any thought given to this goal will feed the thought self/i

You get it dude. Goal and thought go together. The motive is “me” feeding “me” with its ways. Practices, routines and all that jive. 

[Jack River]

@DrewNows you really seem to understand the me/thought very much dude. Awesome ?

[Jack River]

2 hours ago, Outer said:

Yes, a thought that unravels the i/me/ego. You're enlightened? Non-dual awareness? Can you sit for 45 minutes and be without thought...?

To much thought dude. Thought loves to assume and forget it assumed.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

It’s wise to understand what ways the ego feeds itself. Otherwise we get trapped in the loop of illusion dudes. 

[Flammable]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

It’s wise to understand what ways the ego feeds itself. Otherwise we get trapped in the loop of illusion dudes. 

When you look around and see that thought is everywhere, it is quite hard to know what you can trust at that point - even your own practices become tainted with self/ego.

[Nahm]

There is confusion between the denial of a self, the conceptual understanding of no-self (which is still a thought/concept), the realization of no-self (oneness / no objective reality / all is subjective / reduced thinking / end of the surface ego / end of reactional suffering / Freedom), the conceptual understanding of Self (there is only Self / Alone / Meaninglessness / thinking reduced more), and the realization of Self / God / Love (I am / there is only eternal Being/ there is only objectivity / all is Love / existence & nonexistence is a mental duality), and the actuality of Self/ Alone / Infinitude / Nothing to know, Nothing ever happened / Nothing is known (end of root suffering / end of traditional “thought” / Realization Of Spontaneous Creator/Creation / Infinite Intelligence)

*If meaning is not inquired to full dissolution of “ego”, some monkey mind is still active.  If meaning is dissolved fully, but emotion / sensation is still suppressed (unification is not realized) there will not be realization of embodiment. 

The denial of a self, and or understanding of conceptual no-self, are entry realizations prior to Self realization and Actualization, and are notorious for convincing us they are the end, or “enlightenment”, as abiding is nonrelative, and one doesn’t know consciousness outside of direct experience (don’t know what we don’t yet know is not the same as there is nothing to know/knowledge is of the illusion). 

In my opinion, if one has not practiced daily for years, and had direct enlightenment experiences via retreats, self inquiry, contemplation, and  psychedelics, then one is in denial of Self via conceptual “no-self”, and or misunderstanding the realization of no-self, and has not yet experienced beyond these. 

This is all maya though, so don’t pay it too much attention. Just enough. Not too much. Or none of course.

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Flammable said:

even your own practices become tainted with self/ego.

The practices and the me are the same. Psychological movement. Psychological progression=More ego/self. 

[Jack River]

freedom or oneness is not cultivated via time dudes. Time or practices or routines, or usage of chemicals like psychedelic experiences all time based “me” movement. All this type of activity means we have not realized no self yet. They ways we use to get to freedom push freedom away. I wish I would have saw this along time ago. What is is not the result of progression/cultivation my brah-manswhat is comes with the absence of self becoming, or desire/fear running away from what is.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Freedom/liberation/or what is acts now. Doesn’t depend on time. Time is the enemy

[DrewNows]

5 hours ago, Outer said:

You're writing as if everyone's already enlightened.

@OuterSure we are....we just can't see it. 

 

5 hours ago, Outer said:

I/me/ego is solved with self-inquiry. Any questions?

this is what i am investigating....i feel observable understanding is what clarifies the i/me/ego.....as it is only an illusion not a problem to be solved

[DrewNows]

@NahmWhat a mayagasmic post of yours! 

 

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

practiced daily for years, and had direct enlightenment experiences via retreats, self inquiry, contemplation, and  psychedelics, then one is in denial of Self via conceptual “no-self”, and or misunderstanding the realization of no-self, and has not yet experienced beyond these. 

This opinion here is interesting. Is not direct experience in the now more than enough to realize Truth? 

I am struggling with letting go of the conceptual no-self and realizing embodiment...possibly fluctuating. 

 

[Nahm]

@DrewNows It’s of course up to you, all roads lead to nonduality. Mine is one thing at the buffet. The buffet is all yours. 

[Jack River]

Or there is no road to truth. How could there be 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River

[Nahm]

@Jack River ?????

[Jack River]

@Nahm ? its so obvious now dude 

[Flammable]

10 hours ago, Nahm said:

*If meaning is not inquired to full dissolution of “ego”, some monkey mind is still active.  If meaning is dissolved fully, but emotion / sensation is still suppressed (unification is not realized) there will not be realization of embodiment. 

Thanks for the pointer @Nahm  The confusion was precisely about the method of this full dissolution of 'ego' - as thoughts are unable to dissolve themselves, but just observing without thoughts gives no feedback either (except the occasional thought saying 'what the hell are you doing here just looking at the ceiling?')

I guess my meta-question was - how do I rely on anything, be it thoughts or direct experience (which is sometimes subtly tainted by ego/thoughts)? Anything you use to self-inquire/meditate is part of the 'I' which is 'being dissolved' - such as the simple habit of meditating or the thoughts about thoughts themselves.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Flammable

[Nahm]

@Flammable

Everything is not part of the I being dissolved. That “ I “ is thoughts about that “ I “.    Hopefully that helps. Look through the lens of unification, unity, inclusiveness, for this. Someone might wake up out of the blue, another in a time of dire desperation, but most - practice. It’s the “this is it” at no-self that you gotta look out for. The ego is tricky af. 

[DrewNows]

@OuterAppreciate the statistics...setting rationalizations aside, no way will always be the way and until one is ready to let go then maybe practice is applicable. 

but i still feel if one creates a sense of progress, it will only hold back the dissolving of self/ego

to see this, understand the nature of thought/self relationship

I've been told understanding the nature of experience phenomenon, the thought/self relationship, and psychological time (and how they interconnect) in daily life is the most significant and direct way to end psychological conflict / false division between experienc / experiencer 

Edited October 3, 2018 by DrewNows

[Jack River]

@DrewNows doesn’t psychological conflict basically mean resistance and making this false division worse? If desire is motivating me to become isn’t that fear motivating? Does fear lead me out of conflict/suffering ?

 

 

[Jack River]

The truth is becoming is the reason we are not free or that we suffer, as in fear motivated. Also psychological time and thought go together. Desire looking for pleasure in time. “Me” looking for pleasure in thought. “Me” looking for pleasure in “me”- my self image. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Jack River