Self-Inquiry Conundrum

[Flammable]

Hello dear Leo-cultists,

This is my first post in this forum - I am quite glad I stumbled upon this resource, so thank you all for being here.

My question is - how do you avoid falling deep down the rabbit hole of thoughts when you are doing self-inquiry?

I would sit down and start to inquire, but at some point I would find myself lost in thoughts, albeit relevant to the topic at hand. Questions like who am I? who is seeing? who is hearing the car? to whom did this thought arise? would stop my thinking for several seconds - just to then return to it a few moments later. When I try to just sit still and be aware, I almost feel as if I am going nowhere with the questioning without using reason and thought.

So how do I resolve this conundrum - if I do not think, it feels as if I am going nowhere, but when I do think, it simply leads me to nowhere once again (just making my mind feel a bit better by forming a few models/concepts)?

 

 

[Jack River]

14 minutes ago, Flammable said:

mind feel a bit better by forming a few models/concepts)?

 

 

Gives this illusion of progression fosho. Kinda like routined meditation. Soothes the psyche which means pleasure, which also means more fear. Which means more division. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Rilles]

Theres nothing wrong with those thougts or any thought for that matter as long as you keep an eye (oh the paradox) on the awareness watching the thoughts.

[Flammable]

@Rilles but then do you just sit there and look at your thoughts? In a way then self-inquiry is the same as meditation in my definition book. I do not see the aspect of questioning supposedly involved in self-inquiry.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Flammable

[Rilles]

No

Self-Inquiry - finding out your true nature by looking at awareness or the I feeling/thought/sense, thoughts are allowed but you still need massive concentration and some experienece in meditation

Meditation - calming down the mind, thoughts should be in the background, focus can be on breath,sound,inner visual experience etc.

As you can see they are similar but also very different in outcome

[Jack River]

Routined meditation and routined “self inquiry” is really the same thing. Calming down the mind is trying to control and so is that type of self inquiry. Controlling means conflict dudes. Conflict will make the “me” or divsion stronger. I didn’t get that either, now I do. The second I saw how I was keeping fear alive I stoped doing that. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Routine means a motive and motive means resistance. It’s pretty crazy when you get it. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Rilles]

@Jack River I need the raft or I’ll drown in the river of my thoughts before I reach my destination which was me all along. 

 

 

[Jack River]

@Rilles  

jump off float dude 

[Rilles]

@Jack River

 

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

The measurement of inquiry progress

Contradiction 

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

The brain finds and learns those states of no thinking, it likes it, it will learn.

Cultivate states of no thought? “I” use to think that way

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

  It’s a game thought plays with itself. Hilarious game. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

6 minutes ago, Outer said:

It's not a contradiction, it's the same as learning anything. Enlightenment requires a measurement so that progress can be quantified, with quantification you can neurofeedback your way to enlightenment. What about thinking who wants to self-inquiry?

Lol. Isn’t psychological measurement/progress the reason for conflict/suffering? 

 

6 minutes ago, Outer said:

It's just like wiping  your ass and seeing if there's no shit on the toilet paper. No shit on the paper is no thought, while no shit on your ass is enlightenment.

How do you even know there is this enlightenment if your not enlightened? You see this is psychological seeking?..the product of thought itself. Start with fear dude. Learn about it, or don’t. Up to you?

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, Outer said:

It's not like you're measuring your dick and comparing it to someone else. It's a part of the practice.

Practice mean measure/thought dude. 

 

3 minutes ago, Outer said:

Because multiple enlightened beings and books say it.

Thought is a sucker for imitation or authority. 

it’s all good dude. Carry on   

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River

[How to be wise]

@Flammable Concentrate on the question. 

[Flammable]

48 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Practice mean measure/thought dude. 

 

Thought is a sucker for imitation or authority. 

it’s all good dude. Carry on   

Ok, I get your point @Jack River  What is your suggestion then? Focusing entirely on fear? Fear of what? 

 

[DrewNows]

4 hours ago, Flammable said:

So how do I resolve this conundrum - if I do not think, it feels as if I am going nowhere, but when I do think, it simply leads me to nowhere once again (just making my mind feel a bit better by forming a few models/concepts)?

Ha yes! you can see these thoughts for what they are! A self-feeding loop creating more division of thought-self.

What is your purpose for self inquiry? Is it practical? 

 

@OuterHow does mind solve it's own created problem? 

by no way / means / or ideas can freedom from thought self/i be attained. 

Any thought given to this goal will feed the thought self/i

[dorg]

4 hours ago, Flammable said:

Questions like who am I? who is seeing? who is hearing the car? to whom did this thought arise? would stop my thinking for several seconds

The gap in your thinking is the answer.

[Flammable]

5 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

What is your purpose for self inquiry? Is it practical? 

It is mainly curiosity for Truth. No real goal behind it or anything - at least it is really subtle and I have not located it yet if there is any.

I cannot find an obvious mania to become enlightened or anything similar - if it is there, it is well hidden down in the psyche. Neither is there a practical want to improve my life - I am fairly content with what is in my life.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Flammable

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Flammable said:

Focusing entirely on fear? Fear of what? 

Understanding fear means understanding the self. Understanding when fear is fear and understanding when we feed the self or not by not paying attention to fear. First can we even see what is fear or not. If we don’t see fear because it is disguised it goes unoticed and keeps the reaction alive. Or to be simple any psychological becoming is fear or any resistance to what is means fear. Can we even notice this? This really broke this fear reaction for me. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jack River