The Absence of Meaning

[Victor Mgazi]

To all the seekers out here, what is it exactly that you’re seeking? 
To all the questioners out here, what is it exactly that you’re questioning? 
To all the teachers out here, what is it exactly that you’re teaching? 
To all the students out here, what is it exactly that you’re learning? 

What is a dance without a dancer, 
And what is the dancer without the dance? 

What is a song without a singer, 
And what is the singer without the song? 

What is achievement without an achiever,
And what is the achiever without the achievement? 

What is an invention without an inventor,
And what is the inventor without the invention?!

What is art without an artist, 
And what is the artist without the art? 

What is a thought without a thinker, 
And what is the thinker without the thought?!

What is creation without a creator, 
And what is the creator without the Creation?!

What is an experience without a experiencer, 
And what is the experiencer without the experience?!

(This could go on indefinitely) 

The above questions aren’t really there to get answers, they are simply there to help trigger something intuitional and peaceful(a state of rest/silence). Depending on your current state of mind, this could bring about…a meaningless (or silencing, not sure which word is suitable) realization. 

Trying to make meaning out of meaninglessness will only leave you in some sort of a loophole, like a paradox and I hope you see that. Allow the heart & mind to dwell on this for just a small period of time while referencing to the above queries, don't try to resist anything - go with the flow. 

What is sight without the viewer?  What is sound without the hearer? And so on... 

P.S. Wish you luck with your pathless path. 

[Victor Mgazi]

"Indeed

As a path implies an “i” that walks it. 

As the path and “the i” are one and the same movement of time/self. 

The means (path), and the end-goal(truth-enlightenment), are really one and the same movement of “i”-time. 

As all of the above are the movement of psychological time(psychological becoming), and imply the projection of the goal(truth), as if it was some-”thing” fixed-static."

"There is just smelling, tasting, touching, hearing, seeing...thinking/feeling.

but no, actual,.... smeller, taster, toucher, hearer, seer, thinker, feeler that is "doing" any of it."

And how are the above conclusions(a result of observation) so, if there is no observer to observe the queries? 

This is what I would like you to look at. These replies we are making - what meaning can we make out of them if we're to believe in that no observation by any observer actually took place. Then what is the difference between the replies and some meaningless (nonsense) text? 

Can you see what I'm trying to get to here? 

 

 

[Shadowraix]

Anybody who dissects and fragments what you said is going to have some major problems if they don't try to actually make out what you are trying to mean.

By that I mean linguistically there is a smeller, thinker, hearer etc its just when referencing to actually sensing, its a verb not a noun.

[Flammable]

Bumping this post, so I can find it again!

[Victor Mgazi]

Language is just a tool for communication. These words serve no purpose other than of reference. They refer us to acts, concepts or whatever holds identity. 

The only problem here is that language itself is dualistic in nature hence we struggle to communicate that which is non-dual. Whenever we try to do so, we'll be trapped in some sort of loophole like a paradox. The Liar paradox is a suitable example to use when elaborating on this. 

Everything I say is a lie 

Try to make sense or meaning out of this statement and you'll find your self in a vicious cycle of message haunting. And so, I believe it is with meaninglessness. Attempt to make meaning out of that which is meaningless and you'll find yourself trapped in that seeking cycle or loophole. 

Here's another example of what I'm trying to get to here. 

Is it the father that makes the son, or is it the son that makes the father? 

Dwell on this. Can we say there is a father in the absence of a son, and can we say there is a son in the absence of a father? Take a look at this one. 

Is it the Creator that brought forth the creation, or is it the Creation that brought forth the creator? 

Can you see how the creation becomes the creator? For how can we say that there is a creator in the absence of a creation?

My only true question here is that can we, seekers, accept silence as an answer? 

[yawning_]

@Victor Mgazi

 

excellent stuff here, really!

 

31 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

My only true question here is that can we, seekers, accept silence as an answer? 

 in my experience it is needless to seek, needless to accept, needless to hear, and needless to have an answer

 

though all are perfectly acceptable, to question and observe (without judgement) offer the purest realization

 

bless!

 

n̠̪̻̺̩͑̒̍ͮ̉̾̒̅a̳̖̞͓̐ͦͨͣ̄̾̉͐̄͑ͫ̏̚m͍̻̯̺̻̞̰͙̗̻̩̹̮͙̟̤ͭͯͤͤ̄̆ͩ̃̀͗͗̄̿a͍͓͔̼̰̲̮̯̟͎̗̳͈̗̖ͥ̃ͯ́ͯ̏̿̈̆͛ͨͅṣ̩̘̥̲̜͍̩̫̃̿̿ͤ̋̍͑̈́̒̃̒͌͌͑̔ͩͯ̚ṱ̺͙͚͙̩͉̝̖̺̳̖̳̗̱͕́͊̇̉ͯ̓ͤ͐̇͋͆̎͋̊ͩͅḛ̙͚͖̝̺͇̯͐͂̅̈̋̆̃̆

 

- yawning gap

[SoonHei]

love it <3 

Edited September 27, 2018 by SoonHei
duplicate topic - didnt see it before

[Ananta]

@Victor Mgazi I don't understand why you started a whole new thread and copy/pasted mine and Faceless's replies from your original thread, which had the same topic starter post???....you didnt quote us properly, here,  so that we would know you used what we wrote in the other thread, yet you're discussing it. 

Seems shady.

[isabel]

cool

what is taste without a taster?

I thought the answer was nothing because each one cannot exist without the other

but above you're saying there is only tasting and no actual taster doing it

I don't quite understand...

[Victor Mgazi]

@Anna1 I got a warning from Leo, and basically because I didn't title the thread, I was told it would be removed. So I decided to move everything here before it got removed. I am still discussing it with you guys, nothing has changed. 

I don't know what you mean by not quoting properly but I apologize for any flaws in the quotes that I'm not aware of. I am still using them to carry on from where we started in the previous thread so... I don't quite understand the shady thing about it.  I'm glad you mentioned it though, it's good to have clarity in things like this. 

[Victor Mgazi]

@isabel this is pretty much an open debate so it would help if you stated whose opinion/ideas you are referring to. 

What I am trying to make understandable here is that... taste without the taster, or the taster without the taste leaves meaninglessness or that which we can't communicate.

But don't cling on the word, meaningless, I'm only using it for the idea we are discussing. For what is meaningless without meaning??? 

Nothing is a term that refers us to the concept of non-existence / the absence of everything. But what is nothing without everything ? Can you see how both of these terms depend on each other for them to have meaning in the first place. 

48 minutes ago, Outer said:

Meaning is non-duality.

The term, non-duality, means something. But that which is non-dual is meaningless. If you are expecting to arrive at something meaningful by pursuing it then... Good luck. 

[isabel]

10 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

What I am trying to make understandable here is that... taste without the taster, or the taster without the taste leaves meaninglessness or that which we can't communicate.

But don't cling on the word, meaningless, I'm only using it for the idea we are discussing. For what is meaningless without meaning??? 

Nothing is a term that refers us to the concept of non-existence / the absence of everything. But what is nothing without everything ? Can you see how both of these terms depend on each other for them to have meaning in the first place. 

 

hmm I see

 

[Ananta]

3 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

I don't know what you mean by not quoting properly

Simply, you didn't use this- 

@Victor Mgazi  with our quotes.

so we would get a notification that you moved our replies to another thread for discussion.

That's all I'm saying. Have fun-

"debat-ing". ???

Edited September 27, 2018 by Anna1