Self-inquiry Struggles

[cle103]

Hey all

So for the last week I have been meditating 20 minutes twice a day. In the morning I did "mindfullness" and in the evening "letting thoughts go". On monday I bumped that up to 30 minutes and I started self-inquiry. 

I asked myself the following questions: "Who is aware?" "Who is perceiving?" "Who am I?" just like Leo suggested. What I found as I started this inquiry was that I really could not get a sense of what the answer was. I asked myself these questions over and over but there  was no answer at all. My mind was shut or quiet. Sometimes the voice would come up with a timid "I" or with my name but I really could not pinpoint it and when I asked "who is aware of I?"-complete silence. Suddenly after about 10-15 minutes as I was already frustrated there was this awesome sensation. I just felt it coming on. It was like a shower of bliss and awesomeness. Unfortunately it only lasted about 20 seconds hence it was one of the most awesome sensations I have ever felt. 

Nonetheless I really struggled with getting my mind to come up with answers at all. 

In addition to that I did a "strong determination sit" of 1 hour this morning. I tried to do self-inquiry whilst at it but there were no real answers to my questions, yet again. What was really interesting was that after about 45 minutes as I sat through pure pain and discomfort I just let go. Up to that I point I was just frustrated, in pain, bored out of my mind,... but then it almost became pleasurable. I just existed and there was no more resistance. Really interesting experience.

I would really appreciate some feedback from you guys. Especially regarding my self inquiry. How would you rate my progress? Any feedback, tips or suggestions are much appreciated! 

Thanks! 

[Grasshopper]

Try to mix in some other methods of self-inquiry. This works well for me.

One is a walking meditation. You go for a walk, and keep awareness on your body, breath, and thoughts the entire time. Get yourself to the point where you're watching everything you do and think, like you're body and mind are on automatic and you're witnessing the entire process of a person going for a walk, not being involved in any of it.

I'd also recommend doing this while you're having a conversation with someone, or any other time where you are reacting to the situation. I found it to be quite revealing. It's also something you don't have to make extra time for, you just apply it throughout your day.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Grasshopper

[Falk]

One cool thing about meditation is that it sometimes answers our questions, but not by actually answering it, but by revealing that the question we asked was a result of a mind-state we were in when aksing the question and when the mind-state changed the question looses it´s meaning. 

Basicly giving us the experience that we are bigger than our questions who are just small temporary word-games that might seem meaningful while they most of the time realy are not.

I´m not shure right now if that makes any sense what i just wrote  i thought it does... 

[Henri]

Forget about rating your experiences, this is of no importance and child-play.

[Kedar]

I used to do breathing meditation earlier and recently started doing self inquiry meditation. When I was doing breathing meditation, usually after a certain significant amount of time, i was able to fixate my focus on my the entire awareness but with self-inquiry this happens very soon. Just within few questions, awareness starts building. One of the key thing in self inquiry is not to look for answers but instead keep focussing on our direct experience, I think you may be looking for answers.

[ZenMonkey]

You are not looking for an answer! That's not what self inquery is about! You ask "who am I" and just look, only look if you can find yourself. It's not about an answer, it's about a direct experience of the Self. Also who is aware of your bliss and awesomeness?

[cle103]

13 hours ago, ZenMonkey said:

You are not looking for an answer! That's not what self inquery is about! You ask "who am I" and just look, only look if you can find yourself. It's not about an answer, it's about a direct experience of the Self. Also who is aware of your bliss and awesomeness?

Ahh, that makes sense. I got that wrong. Thanks alot for the clarification! 

[cle103]

23 hours ago, Henri said:

Forget about rating your experiences, this is of no importance and child-play.

Ok, interesting. Could you explain why that is ?

[Guest]

This might help:

http://hridaya-yoga.com/meditation-retreats/what-is-hridaya-meditation/the-self-inquiry-method-of-ramana-maharshi/

[Henri]

@cle103 An experience is like a cloud that passes by.

It`s about what`s behind the cloud and not about what cloud...

[cle103]

On 31.3.2016 at 3:10 AM, Guest said:

This might help:

http://hridaya-yoga.com/meditation-retreats/what-is-hridaya-meditation/the-self-inquiry-method-of-ramana-maharshi/

Thank you. It did.

[cle103]

On 31.3.2016 at 5:10 PM, Henri said:

@cle103 An experience is like a cloud that passes by.

It`s about what`s behind the cloud and not about what cloud...

Thank you.

[Leo Gura]

@cle103 You're doing good. Keep at it.

The first thing you should notice when doing self-inquiry is that you ALREADY do believe you know who you are. So don't kid yourself about that. Start by first getting clear about what your existing beliefs are, even if you suspect they are wrong. It's important to get clear that one is wrong and why one is wrong.

A good way to get clear about this is with the following thought exercise: if I point a gun to your head and you sense I'm about to pull the trigger. What is it that you believe is going to die? Answer truthfully. Whatever is true for you is whatever you hold as your deepest identity.

Then clarify that identity. What exact is going die? The body? The brain? The mind? The entity called "cle103"? The voice inside your skull? What?

Spend several weeks at least getting clear about all this stuff.

Then start asking yourself, "Why do I believe I am _________?" And fill in the blank with whatever you most believe you are. If you're the body, why do you believe you are a body and not a coffee table? And who exactly is perceiving the body? Is the body perceiving itself? Then who is perceiving the coffee table? Is the coffee table perceiving itself?

And so forth.

Spend some time investigating all this intellectually in order to generate some doubt in your mind about who you might be.

Then you can sit and meditate and focus on "Who am I?" more productively.

You're not seeking an intellectual answer. You're seeking a direct conscious awareness of your "True Self". All intellectual answers are not it.

[cle103]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@cle103 You're doing good. Keep at it.

The first thing you should notice when doing self-inquiry is that you ALREADY do believe you know who you are. So don't kid yourself about that. Start by first getting clear about what your existing beliefs are, even if you suspect they are wrong. It's important to get clear that one is wrong and why one is wrong.

A good way to get clear about this is with the following thought exercise: if I point a gun to your head and you sense I'm about to pull the trigger. What is it that you believe is going to die? Answer truthfully. Whatever is true for you is whatever you hold as your deepest identity.

Then clarify that identity. What exact is going die? The body? The brain? The mind? The entity called "cle103"? The voice inside your skull? What?

Spend several weeks at least getting clear about all this stuff.

Then start asking yourself, "Why do I believe I am _________?" And fill in the blank with whatever you most believe you are. If you're the body, why do you believe you are a body and not a coffee table? And who exactly is perceiving the body? Is the body perceiving itself? Then who is perceiving the coffee table? Is the coffee table perceiving itself?

And so forth.

Spend some time investigating all this intellectually in order to generate some doubt in your mind about who you might be.

Then you can sit and meditate and focus on "Who am I?" more productively.

You're not seeking an intellectual answer. You're seeking a direct conscious awareness of your "True Self". All intellectual answers are not it.

Thanks alot! This was really insightful. 

[cle103]

@Leo Gura

Ok, I just wanted to take a minute and give an update.

Again, every input is much appreciated!

So I started to ask your recommended question alot and what came up was that I believe I am kind of this CEO in my head. I delegate the "lower tasks" like breathing to my body but I can stil use my body and kind of control it (walk right or point a finger but not how I digest food,... ). In addition I am not the mind but I can choose to use it. What is interesting here is that I cannot really control it because sometimes it just runs wild... In the same manner I am definetely not my thoughts as I cannot control them to any extent. In addition to that I am not "the voice" as I can perceive it. It is kind of an echo of my thoughts. Finally I feel like I am perceiving this world through "my" body and I am judging and labeling it.

So who dies? I feel like "I am going to die". Who is "I" ? The whole of it. The body is going to die. The voice will stop. And so on. But all of that is not me. I am the CEO, the perceiver.

This is what came up during self-inquiry. What was really helpful were two things: the free will vs determinism video and taking some extended contemplative walks tp ask this question in addition to self-inquiry.

Now what also came up due to my logical contemplation where a couple questions:

If what I call "I" is an illusion and I am "reality" why can "I" only perceive what this body perceives (is that reality?). And why can you only perceive what your body perceives? Which of the two is the "real" reality? Are there multiple realities? I know that the question makes no real sense as there is no "I" but it really breaks my fucking mind. What the hell is reality? And where do these thoughts come from? Who makes them? Is it this body (the trillions of cells)? What is this "nothingness"? 

Lastly, what really fascinated me was that the human body on a atomic level is much more empty space than matter. So if we touch something it is really the repulsion of different atoms against each other (from our hand against the atoms of the wall/...). Furthermore it is kind of freaky that everything (waves,...) moves through us. But what about thoughts? Are they energy? Is that how they arise ?! Just an idea...

I have much more mindbreaking questions but I do not want to hold you off to long.

What would be some suitable questions at this point to get through this "CEO perception" ? 

Thanks so much!