Why does it matter if you love reality or not?

[MM1988]

If there are no guarantees what does it matter?

You are tortured physically or emotionally and put in massive emotional labor to still love reality for what it is. The suffering continues anyway and you are brought to the point where you are killed or kill yourself and that was it.

Why do a spiritual practice everyday if the chance of enlightenment is so small - if it even exists. Why not just do heroin all day to eliminate your suffering and die peacefully?

[Haumea2018]

The suffering doesn't "continue anyway."

Suffering is in the resistance to what is, not in what is.

[MM1988]

@Mikael89 I think we have a simmilar story. No success with girls despite trying for over a decade, depressed, neurotic, confused, nihilistic and going on 30 with no sign of anything changing. Found this site and got into spirituality as a "last" attempt to become a better person and somehow deal with the suffering.

Edited September 26, 2018 by MM1988

[tsuki]

28 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Why not just do heroin all day to eliminate your suffering and die peacefully?

@MM1988 Because you won't die.
The pure observer that sees 'through' a person (and its suffering) lacks any qualities, it is literally nothing.
When you see 'other people', you may assume that they have 'another instance' of this pure observer that has no qualities, but this is just an assumption. The pure witness has no qualities and therefore it cannot be numbered. It is singular and absolute.
You are literally 'other people'. Even if this person you call 'you' will die peacefully, you will be reborn and experience this suffering again.

The only way out is to dissolve the difference between suffering and peace and pass it along to other beings.

[MM1988]

@Outer I knew this answer would come. So what should I do? I can ask this question all day long. Is you suggestion that I should do self inquiry for 100.000 hours now? Why not just do heroin today and be done with it?

[MM1988]

@Mikael89 I knew it. Fuck this gay earth  Sometimes you suffer so much and you have so much bad luck in a row. The only thing you can do is lean back and laugh at the absurdity of reality.

Edited September 26, 2018 by MM1988

[Shin]

You can remove suffering waaaaaaay before enlightenment.

[MM1988]

@OuterI've been doing spiritual practice daily for over a year you dont have to tell me that. Oh boy, Just another 20 years  to go (If I'm lucky) to be free of suffering and maybe start dating. The question remains. Why not do heroin today?

[Rilles]

Where is your suffering occuring? Find it,  is it in the mind? The body? Im not playing around! Find it and see what it is!

[MM1988]

@Outer Meditation mainly, and for a bit over a month kriya yoga. I'm still to damn neurotic for anybody to have a relationship with me.

 

[MM1988]

9 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Where is your suffering occuring? Find it,  is it in the mind? The body? Im not playing around! Find it and see what it is!

Its waves of negative emotion that go through my body many times per day, every day. They stem from my monkey mind interpreting my past or being anxious about my future. I can notice all of this happening alright, but it still happens every day. My mind is running wild, I'm neurotic as fuck. My psychology is fucked and I'm working my ass of every day to unwire this mess. It stems from a decade of depression and failure with the opposite sex.

Edited September 26, 2018 by MM1988

[Rilles]

12 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

Its waves of negative emotion that go through my body many times per day, every day. They stem from my monkey mind interpreting my past or being anxious about my future. I can notice all of this happening alright, but it still happens every day. My mind is running wild, I'm neurotic as fuck. My psychology is fucked and I'm working my ass of every day to unwire this mess. It stems from a decade of depression and failure with the opposite sex.

You have to start deconstructing all of this. Your mind is labeling you as something ”bad”, stop doing that. Who decided that you ”failed” with the opposite sex? Can you be happy despite your so called ”failures”? If you somehow achieved this opposite sex goal would you be forever happy after that?

IE Become conscious of what is really going on. 

Heroin is the most unconcious a person can get, until they die from it. It wont relieve any suffering it will increase suffering 100x.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Rilles

[MM1988]

@Rilles At least it would feel like progress if something with a girl would finally work out. Telling myself I should be happy when I'm lonely is nice theory but I can tell this to myself all day long, and I did, but I cant believe it on a deep level. I'm still human, its normal to want an intimate connection with someone, why should I deny that. Everybody who says you should be happy alone or you dont deserve someone are people who easily get into relationships or are asexual.

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

@Rilles At least it would feel like progress if something with a girl would finally work out. Telling myself I should be happy when I'm lonely is nice theory but I can tell this to myself all day long, and I did, but I cant believe it on a deep level. I'm still human, its normal to want an intimate connection with someone, why should I deny that. Everybody who says you should be happy alone or you dont deserve someone are people who easily get into relationships or are asexual.

Feel like progress? A progress towards what? Would you marry this woman then? How long before you became lonely with someone? What is it that you really want? Contemplate that, ego always wants a quick fix, but thats a quick fix not a long term solution. 

[MM1988]

@Rilles I dont want to be 50 and regret never having had a relationship or family. I want that to be a possibility for me. I dont want to die without ever having had an intimate relationship. So I'm already working on the long term solution to eliminate that "need" and surrender myself to my fate, even if it means I maybe cant have a relationship in my life. But this solution is very long term and I'm suffering and doubting like crazy. I'm neurotic 24/7.

Edited September 26, 2018 by MM1988

[Enlightenment]

@MM1988 @Mikael89 I can relate a lot to you, I was unsuccessful with girls, neurotic as fuck, depressed, nihilistic. Now after almost 2 years of my obsession with this topic (a big part of that was a hope to solve those problems) I am:

- not depressed at all

- still nihilistic but I guess that is just part of the deepest structure of my personality, no need to change that

- my neuroticism went from very high to very low, probably something like bottom 5% of the normal distribution, much lower automatic fear/startle response from the central nervous system

- still unsuccessful with girls but I couldn't care less at this point

Enlightenment will not cure all your neurosis (you will be dead without any neurosis) but enlightenment + Samahta which is a concentration practice that eventually makes you perfectly concentrated like a laser effortlessly, will reduce it greatly.

Read The Mind Illuminated, start practicing it 1,5h or more every day and in addition to that try insight practices in sequence like I wrote there: 

As for heroin - yea you will always have that option so why not try to destroy neuroticism first and then decide?

[MM1988]

@Enlightenment dont you resent other people sometimes for why they have it so easy and relationships are just a normal part of your their life and for you this area of life is just closed off for unknown reason and you have to go through all this suffering to cope with it?

 

[Rilles]

15 minutes ago, MM1988 said:

@Rilles I dont want to be 50 and regret never having had a relationship or family. I want that to be a possibility for me. I dont want to die without ever having had an intimate relationship. So I'm already working on the long term solution to eliminate that "need" and surrender myself to my fate, even if it means I maybe cant have a relationship in my life. But this solution is very long term and I'm suffering and doubting like crazy. I'm neurotic 24/7.

Youre looking for a relief from loneliness, not a genuine relationship, youll be dragging your dead rat of issues into whatever relationship you go into, when you start arguing with your girlfriend youll see all your neurosis come up, Im speaking from direct experience. Yes a relationship is rainbows and butterflies but when those rainbows arent there, then what? Fix your depression at the root first.

[Baotrader]

@MM1988 you're making a projection

[MM1988]

@Rilles You are totally right but the situation is more complicated and paradoxical than that.

I have to not want a relationship to have a good relationship. To become better with girls I have to learn flirting, make moves, etc. while at the same time I should not be doing these things because its a search for an external fix and I should fix myself first. So do I chase girls to become better with these things or do I do nothing and concentrate on myself for years? Plus there is a timer ticking at the same time, I have maybe 5 years left to really start a family and thats late already. And I'm starting at zero. I cant work on myself for 10 years. Practically I have to do something right fucking now but I should also stay away from dating at the same time. There is no way to win this but to give up. 

 

 

If I had a relationship or at least knew I could get one when I wanted I would be double motivated to become the best version of myself. Its the only part of my life that seems totally outside of my control. Like this, its everyday like "do I continue with this self improvement thing today or should I just jump in front of a train and be done with it?".

Edited September 26, 2018 by MM1988