Do other perspectives actually exist?

[Robi Steel]

Hey guys,

Ive been pondering this question for a while now and no satisfying insight has hit me yet, so maybe you guys can help. Maybe this is just a thinking error that I have. I had the same problem with the question "Why is there something rather than nothing", until I saw that asking that question didnt really make sense. 

Im pretty sure that my perspective exists: this forum is here, the two speakers next to my laptop, the window of my room and so on. Thats real for sure, its here. But do other perspectives exist in the same way that this perspective exists? Leo answers the question of "Why cant I see all the other perspectives if all of csc is one?" with the house analogy and that a room can be closed off from the rest of the house even though its one house. But this would mean that Leos perspective exists somewhere out there in the same way that mine does right here, or any other perspective for that matter. But if I created a perfect illusion for myself there would be no need for the other perspectives to exist simultaneously. I would just shape this csc in a way that it would seem like Leo had the same experiences as me for himself, somewhere else, not visible to this perspective.

I hope this makes sense, I know you guys are probably pretty sure that your perspective is there, but that kind of behaviour, is the behaviour that I would create for myself I if I wanted to live in a self-created reality. I am probably missing something obvious, someone?

Much love

[Rilles]

I have the same conundrum... somebody answer us! 

[Echoes]

@Robi Steel People will answer you with great certainty and argue for their case, but how will it actually help you? This question can't be answered to your satisfaction by some text that appears on a monitor

[WindInTheLeaf]

Any answer given would prove there to be other perspectives, would it not? Perhaps ask the opposite question: could there ever exist only one perspective? 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Im pretty sure that my perspective exists: this forum is here, the two speakers next to my laptop, the window of my room and so on. Thats real for sure, its here. But do other perspectives exist in the same way that this perspective exists?

Great questions. I love this type of contemplation and conceptualizing.

I think you have reached a depth of contemplation in which language starts to break down. In such cases, I've found it helpful to simply contemplate the concept. In this case "What is perspective". It sounds like you have done some of that, but you may still be making some assumptions. Essentially, you are exploring different perspectives of perspectives! Haha!

As you explore your ideas of perspective, be mindful how other people are using the term "perspective". In what context and form are they using the term? Catch yourself if you make an assumption that your idea of perspective is normative and they are using the term the same as you.

The nice thing about creating this thread is that you are asking for people's perspective on perspective. This shines a light directly on your target.

Also consider this: is there one "true" perspective on perspective? You may read many different ideas on perspective - some will resonate with you - others will not. 

 

15 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

But if I created a perfect illusion for myself there would be no need for the other perspectives to exist simultaneously. I would just shape this csc in a way that it would seem like Leo had the same experiences as me for himself, somewhere else, not visible to this perspective.

I think you are conflating nondual perspective and dual perspective. Creating a perfect illusion for oneself is duality - it involves separation. There is *my* perspective internally and *other* perspectives externally. The idea of a single consciousness is at a higher level than individual consciousness. An individual self is limited and it doesn't get to alter a higher order consciousness.

To highlight this, imagine you are dreaming. Let's call your dream character Paul. Paul attends NYU in New York. One day in his philosophy of mind class, the professor raises the idea that everyone in the class, NYU and all of New York is within a dream. He says all of this dream reality is within a single shared consciousness. So, everyone in the class is within a higher order shared consciousness (that would be the *real* you that is sleeping and dreaming). Now, Paul comes up with and idea: "If I create a perfect illusion for myself, there would be no need for the other perspectives in this class to exist simultaneously. I would just shape consciousness in a way that it would seem like the professor had the same experiences as me for himself, somewhere else, not visible to this perspective".

From a dualistic perspective, Paul and the professor are separate. How else could the *real you* experience a dream story? This question is: could Paul create an illusion for himself that alters the experience of the professor? From a nondual perspective, it is a weird question. It is possible, yet it isn't up to Paul - it is up to the higher shared consciousness (the real you that is sleeping). Paul is deluded because he thinks he is real and he thinks his classmates and professor are real. He was just taught that he is not real like he thinks he is. There is a higher consciousness that everyone in the dream share (the *real you* sleeping). Yet, when Paul asks if his consciousness can alter the consciousness of his professor it is obvious he still sees himself as an independent, real being. Paul still has the perspective that he has his own consciousness and the professor has his own consciousness. From Paul's view, this is correct. Yet, from the perspective of the *real you*, none of the dream characters have real consciousness. If you woke up from sleeping and realized Paul's bicycle was stolen in the dream, would you be upset? Would you be worried all day about how Paul will get to his classes the rest of the semester? Of course not, because the higher order consciousness is aware that none of the dream characters are real.

That analogy is intended to contrast dual and nondual perspectives. We can shift gears now and address your question from a purely dualistic perspective. Let's leave the dream scene and return to normal duality. That both you and Leo exist and are real. I think it wold be possible for one independent consciousness to alter a separate independent consciousness through paranormal activity. It could be that human minds are currently unaware of this ability, that the ability has not yet evolved or the ability will never evolve. Yet, I'd say it's possible.

[SgtPepper]

Yes and No.

They don't exist because perspectives or separation of No Self is an 'illusion'. 

Yes because within the 'illusion' infinite perspective exist.

Consciousness or Oneness is paradoxically expressed as Infinity

Sort of how you may have two eyeballs that capture different images, but your brain combines them to create ONE vision.

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Considering that you are seeing your perspective because you are seeing through a lens that is your brain. Imagine your sensory perceptions are a doorway to your particular small perspective, but the consciousness that is seeing through this doorway is universal. 

It's like our bodies/brains are different doors or windows to look through, but ultimately its consciousness looking at itself through itself. 

The strange loop video will help explain that part more-so.

Edit:

Also contemplate that you have different perspectives within yourself too haha. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by SgtPepper

[Emanyalpsid]

How do you verify we are not only in your mind?

[SgtPepper]

1 minute ago, Emanyalpsid said:

How do you verify we are not only in your mind?

because you are not even in your mind, you are experiencing a mind.

[Joseph Maynor]

There is only one true perspective, the perspective of God Awareness.  All other perspectives are Egoic and illusory including the perspective of the Egoic self as well as the perspectives of Other Beings.  

Edited September 26, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[i am I AM]

@Joseph Maynor IYP, what is the definition of perspective?