Getting out of stage blue

[Ampresus]

Hello everyone. Today I wanted to ask you some questions if you don't mind. Maybe Leo can reply to this, but we'll see. I am currently stuck in stage blue. I am a muslim, so is my family. My father is shia and my mother is sunni. Don't worry. I don't want to identify as both. I actually don't want to identify at all, because in Leo's ''10 Important Things You Don't Know You Want'' video he said that I actually wouldn't want to identify. So guess what I am trying to do here (I really hope I am doing it right). I want to evovlve to stage orange and so forth. Although certain things I don't understand:

Am I supposed to be skeptical and question God until I basically don't believe in him anymore? 

Leo said that I should read more about both stage blue and orange. You guys know any good books that talk about stage blue and orange? 

I am very young, would you guys advice me to go deeper into spiral dynamics? Somethings tells me I should put my focus on his book-list video. I already ordered ''Mastery'' by George Leonards. I am planning to buy all 6 books Leo talked about in that video and even more self-help books. My future is super important to me, but if I can also evolve as a kid should I also be doing that? 

As all teens I also have a crush. My religion doesn't allow it, altough it seems like stage orange is perfectly fine with it. If I want to evolve to stage orange should I just go for her? Is that necessary or just a nice thing which I now get to choose to? Don't worry I don't want to get into a serious relationship. Just knowing what kinds of girls are out there   Oh btw, in case I should go for her. The next book I am ordering is ''The Five Love Languages''.  

Leo said that a lot of times whenever stage blue people accidentally reach enlightenment, they get scared of it. Would putting my focus on reaching enlightenment as a kid get me out of blue? I have no clue what enlightenment really is, but do you guys advice me going for it? Just in case it is important to know, I already meditate for 20 mins a day. 

So Mohammed was not Blue. Would it be wrong from me to trying to be at the same stage he was? I think you guys can understand that I look up to him. If I can experience life the same way he did I think I would be happier. (I always looked up to Gautama Buddha and it turns out that he wasn't blue too) 

This was all for now, take care everyone. 

[Forestluv]

@Ampresus You may not realize it, but you are transitioning from Blue to Orange right now. You are asking questions and taking actions of someone transitioning. Being aware of one's own stage and wanting to evolve is 50% of the process. 

A few suggestions:

Stage Blue involves "either / or" thinking (aka "black or white" thinking). This thinking mode can come in handy at times, yet it is very limited. Think about it: if you can only define something as "good" or "bad", there is no space to consider greater complexities. You only have two options. If something is not All Good, your only option is it is All Bad.

One aspect of the Blue to Orange transition is seeing shades of grey. Think of a few things you have been conditioned to believe is "good" or "bad". For example, is any religion ALL good or bad? Can you find aspects of Christianity that are good? Aspects that are bad? How about people? Is anyone ALL good or bad? If we look very closely could we not find something we would consider good and something we would consider bad in any person? 

Stage Blue also involves obedience to rules and laws. Are all rules and laws fair and just? Are there any laws that don't make much sense? If someone broke a nonsensical law, is it justified to punish them? Can you think of a stupid rule or law that is not worthy of being obeyed? 

Stage Blue also involves self sacrifice for a community or an afterlife. As people transition to orange, they may feel guilt or self judgement as they focus on themself. Ask yourself: "why is personal development important to me?". To go further. . . what do *you* value? Not what you were told you should value. Look within, what do *you* value? Read Leo's synopsis of stage Orange values on the Orange megathread. Which of those do *you* value. Watch Orange videos. Which videos resonate with you? Remember, there are both healthy and unhealthy expressions of Orange. In the videos, which ones feels healthy to you? What forms of Orange expression are you attracted to? What characteristics do you admire? What type of person do you want to become? Be aware. You can create a healthy Orange mindset for yourself.

[Ampresus]

@Serotoninluv Thank you for your suggestions. I already have experiences with the shades of grey. I became interested in judaism, christianity and buddhism and saw good in all of them. I already have found much good about all those religions. I will try it with people in general. I notice on a daily basis whenever I judge too much, maybe I should stop doing that.

Do you mean with obedience to rules and laws, in my case, the rules in the Quran? Or the general rules and laws in my country? I personally hate patriotism and so do not thinks as someone who doesn't. I have never felt that community feelings.  

I have been told since my youth that there is a heaven and hell. That the devil is sitting probably next to me watching me writing this. Thanks for the advice on creating a healthy Orange mindset. If I get more free time I will definitely watch the orange video and Leo's synopsis. 

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Ampresus said:

@Serotoninluv 
Do you mean with obedience to rules and laws, in my case, the rules in the Quran? Or the general rules and laws in my country? I personally hate patriotism and so do not thinks as someone who doesn't. I have never felt that community feelings.  

I have been told since my youth that there is a heaven and hell. That the devil is sitting probably next to me watching me writing this. Thanks for the advice on creating a healthy Orange mindset. If I get more free time I will definitely watch the orange video and Leo's synopsis. 

There are different lines of development. A person can be centered in Orange in some issues and centered in Blue on other issues. 

For rules and laws, I would question them all. Yet, not in an antagonistic way. In an open-minded curious way. As well, I would be mindful of how vocal I am. In many cultures, there is a backlash against those who evolve to higher consciousness. People can get ostracized. I work in science and I need to be mindful to tone down my Turquoise at work. I would likely get ostracized by my colleagues and if I took it too far I could lose my job. That might be my ultimate fate, yet I'm not willing to go there right now.

I grew up in a fundamental Christian home and was conditioned with strong views on heaven and hell, God and the devil. Those views didn't feel right to me, yet it also didn't feel right to reject the ideas. So, I modified the views to what felt right. For example, I modified my concept of God to be more consistent with my nature. 

[Ampresus]

@Serotoninluv I watched the video about Orange and I am half way through. I must say tho, I almost can't relate at all. Like genuinely I understand it when other people are like that, but I can't imagine me being like that. I haven't watched all of it, so maybe Leo will talk about the good sides too and maybe I can relate to that. Is there a chance I might be, for example, more Green and Blue than Blue and Orange? Is that possible? 

[thehero]

On 9/25/2018 at 1:03 PM, Ampresus said:

Am I supposed to be skeptical and question God until I basically don't believe in him anymore? 

this is how i got out of blue when i was 14-15

i questioned god. i believed god would grant me all wishes. so I said: "god if you exist, give me a million dollars in the next 10 seconds" "god if you exist give me a girlfriend tomorrow" 

it never happened. for me that made me skeptical

i read r/atheism a lot. it turned me into a hardcore atheist. i've let go of the ideology since and am transitioning into green now, but i thank leo for that :). thanks leo! 

atheism would debunk religion with the following phrases: 

"how can you just believe a random book with random laws that was made by an arbitrary person several thousand years ago?"

"religion is the cause of many world injustices" 

"science is empirical! science is the truth! science shows the religion is wrong! this is what our rigorous studies say!"

"there's no proof for religion! show me your god! show me your proof! you have none! science!!"

"SCIENCE BITCH!" - jesse pinkman

"fuck all those stupid laws from a random book. no dumb book will tell me if i can have sex or not"

basically seeing that there is no proof to religion is what helped me. 

 

yeah theres a bunch of dogma in these statements but this is what helped me transition. i came full circle when i looked into enlightenment. 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by thehero

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Ampresus said:

@Serotoninluv I watched the video about Orange and I am half way through. I must say tho, I almost can't relate at all. Like genuinely I understand it when other people are like that, but I can't imagine me being like that. I haven't watched all of it, so maybe Leo will talk about the good sides too and maybe I can relate to that. Is there a chance I might be, for example, more Green and Blue than Blue and Orange? Is that possible? 

Orange is a complex stage. It can have various forms of expression. Some healthy, some unhealthy. When I went through Orange, some features appealed to me, others did not. For example, materialism and consumerism is a hallmark of Orange. Yet, I've never been motivated by money and material possessions or wealth. For many years, I've had the resources to buy nice clothes, a fancy car, a nice house, jewelry etc. - yet I've never cared about that stuff. I've never cared about looking good or how good others look. I've had the education and experience to get a job that would double or triple my salary. I've always been content with a modest salary. I've never been attracted to awards, recognition or job titles. These are all core aspects of Orange that never appealed to me.

Ever since I was a young man in my early 20s, I had a lot of green. I was a bit of a hippy and traveled to Grateful Dead shows. I've been involved with meditation groups my entire adult life. I've always enjoyed dharma group discussions centered on compassion, love and empathy. I started volunteer work in my 20s. I've helped people overcome drug and alcohol addictions. For years I volunteered in a psychiatric ward. I would sit and listen to patients and offer emotional support. I've always been comfortable discussing insecurity, fear and vulnerabilities. These are core Green aspects that have been part of me my whole life.

Similar to you, I grew up in a fundamental religious home. As soon as I moved out of the house, those Green aspects emerged and those Orange aspects had no appeal. So yes, a plenty of Green can emerge after Blue. However, I did not skip Orange. I went DEEP into aspects of Orange. . . Personal freedom and autonomy were always extremely important to me. I never got married and I never had the slightest desire to have children. I consciously avoided getting married or having children because it would impinge on my personal freedom and autonomy. I've treasured the freedom to do what I want. To date who I want, to move as I want, to travel the country and the world as I want. I worked my ass off to get a job where I have enormous freedom and autonomy. I can learn, teach and research what I want. I have no boss. I couldn't stand anyone telling me what to do or how to think. Moreover, I've always been a seeker of knowledge, discovery and truth. I valued rational, logical thinking. I became a hardcore scientist. I loved to have intellectual debates with religious zealots. I loved Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins. I would roll my eyes at "woo woo, airy fairy" stuff. Deepak Chopra was a complete joke of a scientist. In my college classes I taught about how beliefs in paranormal activity were irrational and unscientific. These are all core Orange aspects that were a big part of my personality for about 20 years. I began transitioning out of this about 5 years ago. People who knew me back then, barely recognize me now.

So, you may have a lot of Green coming right out of Blue. You may genuinely find many aspects of Orange unappealing. Yet, there may be some aspects that resonate with you. 

[njuufa]

Hey, check this too  Imagine a christmas eve in a christian orthodixical church. There is this awful play going on that they are doing every year. Girls are singing around cradle. Mary is there, few shepherds and yea... whole set. You are the shepherd. Thats your role. As you wait your part to come you start to feel tension. Its not anxiety because of the stage fear but it feels that something is being phony here. They dont seem enjoying it. It seems to you that these people around you are ashamed. And your memory tells you that this is how we are supposed to feel. Suddenly you understand that the reason you feel ashamed is because you are part of this orthotoxical. I am believing this nonsense. Your honesty levels starts arise and you see the truth of this business here. 

"THIS WHOLE THING IS DISGRACEFUL" comes out of your mouth while Mary passes you microphone. Everyone heard you, they all look at you with shock. You can feel the heat arising on these hopeless faces.  

"fuck that" you decide

And grab that fucking lame fake sheep that you had there and kick the thing over where baby Jesus were laying. You grab the cross from pastors daughter and run out from the church while saying "I am freeee...". 

You probably thinking that i am a sociopath or something  . But if you could imagine yourself like this without feeling bad about what you do, then you are on a decent orange ground. For the haters, its actually from panic. Your actions are aligned to save your ass from this. I just love to give it a little extra when I act, so i make sure everyone really gets it   It will probably be most enlightening thing that people have ever seen in orthodox. This story how you escape and burn blue is a what orange loves - its their way of building relationships. 

 

 

 

[Ampresus]

@thehero As it turns out, atheism isn't my thing. Entire idea of worshipping science while religions must be false seems in my eyes just as bad as praising Allah till your death. Thanks for the advice though, but I discovered that I am more Green than Blue or Orange. Nice story though

[Ampresus]

@Serotoninluv Inspirational story. If I get older I want to get into meditation groups too. Some people told me I should go on something called ''Vipassana retreat''. I looked it up and I don't think I can go for it now, but maybe later in my life. Anyway I am about to watch the Green video. I can totally relate about ''somethings that appeal to me and some not''. Although it's mostly ''not''. Btw, do you recommend giving up daily prayers in exchange for focussing more on meditation and reading self-help books? Since I've seen the Blue video, I can't find a reason to do prayers. How did you stop? Or did you stop at all? 

[Ampresus]

@njuufa Yes I think you are a sociopath. Yes I will use your method. Thanks

[Cocolove]

5 hours ago, Ampresus said:

@thehero As it turns out, atheism isn't my thing. Entire idea of worshipping science while religions must be false seems in my eyes just as bad as praising Allah till your death. Thanks for the advice though, but I discovered that I am more Green than Blue or Orange. Nice story though

you might even be yellow, watch all the spiral videos and see where you line up, and move from there. Don't oversimplify, that is, spiral dynamics is a model and although it is incredibly useful it should not be the sole guide of how you move forward with your development. Keep up that meditation practice

[Forestluv]

7 hours ago, Ampresus said:

@Serotoninluv Btw, do you recommend giving up daily prayers in exchange for focussing more on meditation and reading self-help books? Since I've seen the Blue video, I can't find a reason to do prayers. How did you stop? Or did you stop at all? 

When I transitioned out of Blue, my type of prayer evolved. I no longer prayed to a specific entity (like Jesus or Buddha). Rather, meditation and sutras became my "prayer". I also prayed in general that suffering in the world be reduced. Also, I've always like the prayer of St. Francis. You can do it without praying to a god. 

Sometimes, I sit with a word without thinking and just let stuff arise. Something like "What is genuine". It kinda feels like prayer.