Is enlightenment permanent freedom from suffering? Is there a happy ending?

[Lorcan]

Note: I am asking these questions in the relative, practical sense, so don't just tell me "Your already enlightened", I can not do anything with that.

Is enlightenment permanent freedom from suffering?

Is the experience of infinite happiness unavoidable, even if I lived a trashy life , steeped in lies and delusion.If becoming enlightened allows me to escape the matrix. Is that escape permanent? What are the stakes here? What are the actual stakes? If I wanted to make myself suffer for infinity. As god. How would I do that?

If I were to live a life steeped in lies and suffering for the rest of my life, is the experience of infinite happiness inevitable. 

I sit down to find to meditate to find an answer. Nothing ever happens.

The only answer I get is this

------------------>                                              <--------------------------------

 

All words seem to lie and a tool from the projection. Everything seems to be steeped in infinitely unsolvable mystery and strange loops. There are emotions which aren't much help either. Words seem like trying to pierce through an iron plate with hand thrown pebbles. 

If absolute infinity is true. Is that not horrifying? Dimensions where people live forever, just to suffer, forever.   

I have trouble reconciling with this. How can people live in peace knowing that absolute infinity is truth, when within in it, all this endless suffering is going on. What if you were THAT that experienced suffering for an infinity, with no escape. How do you think he feels?

I do not know. What then if you or I are to lead a self-actualized life, if, when death occurs, the self is simply melted, and then cast into a new ego, back to square one again.

Is there really nothing we can do to have a permanent affect on experience after death? 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lorcan

[Barry J]

See how you just created fear, anxiety and suffering through thought?

Let thoughts arise but don’t follow them.  Thoughts will lead you to suffering as you have demonstrated above. Does this make sense?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Lorcan said:

If absolute infinity is true. Is that not horrifying? Dimensions where people live forever, just to suffer, forever.   

Yes, indeed it is horrifying. Which is why most people avoid it like the plague.

Quote

I have trouble reconciling with this. How can people live in peace knowing that absolute infinity is truth, when within in it, all this endless suffering is going on.

Because after enlightenment, you are gone, dead. You surrendered your entire life.

It's hard for a dead man to suffer since suffering is the avoidance of death.

Once you are infinite, nothing can harm you. The body can die and it does not bother you.

[i am I AM]

Evil dimensions?  You are the answer, You are the solution. 

No need to believe that (my distraction/maya statement above) off hand, so Verify your self.

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, Lorcan said:

I have trouble reconciling with this

Then why are you trying to?...

Because you can’t yet tell the difference between direct experience, and thoughts/beliefs (wild thoughts/beliefs). 

Keep practicing. Don’t fall for your own silly thought trees. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Sort of, but you gotta see through Ego much deeper than most people want to.   Most people don’t want to do that, and thus they remain Spiritual Egos trapped in Ego.  That ain’t gonna get you liberation. It will get you a taste of liberation but not the full-blown thing.  I wouldn’t really say it’s a happy ending because that’s Ego.  It’s a realization of the Truth — namely the Truth that you’re not the Egoic self, and that all Thought and Experience are actually an illusion. It’s a detachment of the true Self from illusory Maya.  When the true Self gets embedded or distracted within illusory Thought and Experience, that’s what creates Ego.  Suffering is caused when God Awareness forgets who He is and gets tossed around in the illusion.  That’s what Samsara is.  You awaken from Samsara and realize the true Self of God Awareness, and you realize that Maya a.k.a. Is like a dream that can’t fundamentally hurt You because You’re all that actually exists, and You’re all alone.  That’s one thing that a lot of people would have a real hard time to accept.  That actually caused my second Dark Night of the Soul when I realized I’m all alone In reality.  

Edited September 25, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[tsuki]

11 hours ago, Lorcan said:

Is enlightenment permanent freedom from suffering?

Think of it this way: enlightenment is the dissolution of the difference between happiness and suffering.

[SoonHei]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, indeed it is horrifying. Which is why most people avoid it like the plague.

what is horrifying? to the ego I presume?

 

that " i " don't exist? that's what horrifying 

just want to understand what is meant by "absolute infinity is true" - that the universe is infinite ? and that's horrifying?  ?? 

[aurum]

@Lorcan

22 hours ago, Lorcan said:

If I were to live a life steeped in lies and suffering for the rest of my life, is the experience of infinite happiness inevitable. 

No.

Notice that many people die after having suffered their entire lives. I would say the majority.

So there is no inevitability that you will achieve happiness. It will depend on the choices you make.

That's what total freedom means. You have the freedom to suffer for your entire life if you choose. Alternatively, you could choose something else.

Keep meditating and whatever spiritual practice you have. To try and understand these things simply with the mind is impossible.

[Timotheus]

@Lorcan

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

That's what masters claim and there's really only one way to find out, they even tend to say that all of nature actually lives in zen, and that only humans apparently suffer in kind of insane way (self-conscious, existential fear).

But we can know for certain self-conscious suffering can go, because we see little to none of it in little/children and animals, and even in some adults.

As for existential fear, that's also just something that arises with thinking based on imagination, not inherent in all states of sleep-dream-waking (it's not there in sleep and in the first few dreams there tends to be none, then self-based ego arises and it comes).

So when you say, 'people will suffer forever', no they won't, because only sensations can be painful (on the surface) but stress thinking makes it bad, and that thinking is based on momentary time/choice, not an inherent quality.

 

[isabel]

the patanjali yoga sutras say that it is permanent 

it can be permanent in your daily life

and then permanent after you die

it says that you can enter the dimension of absolute consciousness where you become completely separated from your mind and then there is nothing left to propel you back into rebirth to fulfill forgotten desires...